End of Season: A Leadership Resource Roundup

A single question can change how you lead: “Was I giving you feedback or was I an asshole?” We start there, unpacking what it takes to notice when our “help” is really just control, and why self-awareness matters more than good intent when you are building trust at work. We also talk about choosing your battles, using the “start with the heart” mindset from Crucial Conversations, and deciding when a repair attempt is worth the time and emotional energy.

Then we switch gears and do something we love: a practical, listener-tested resource roundup. We share podcasts that deliver real professional development without the fluff, including the Harvard Business Review IdeaCast, plus local Kansas City favorites like Four O’Clock Somewhere and The Corporate Couch, and a calming wellness show from Jenna Washnowski. Rhonda brings in a standout mindfulness and neuroaesthetics recommendation from the Getty Museum called the Ohm podcast, a short guided experience that uses art, history, and attention to help center your nervous system.

We also drop our best LinkedIn follows for leaders who want higher quality inputs, including marketing ideas that actually make Gen Z strategy feel usable, plus Nicole Bradford’s AI radar for staying current on artificial intelligence and human-centered AI strategy. And because leadership is also about regulation, not just results, we share our favorite intentional brain breaks like explore.org live nature cams and even underwater streams that can reset your focus before a meeting or a brainstorming session.

We’re taking about a month break after this season-ending conversation, but we want to stay connected. Subscribe, share the show with a friend, and leave a rating or review, then tell us what you want us to tackle next season.

Rhonda's recommendations: 

Podcasts

Ommm Podcast by Getty Museum, part history, part mindfulness, part aesthetic engagement. 

Intentional Brain Break

Explore Live Nature Cams Explore.org (bears in Alaska, Katineye Park)

LinkedIn

• Pretty Little Marketer
• Big Think
• Nichol Bradford—AI; Friday “AI Radar” and she reposts variety of AI thought leaders

Book

Lena Dunham, Famesick

Katie's Recommendations: 

Harvard Business Review IdeaCast 

4:00 somewhere-Marc Shaffer and Jeff Pallacio (The Corporate Couch)

In with the…Jenna Washnaski

Intentional Brain Break:

Pompano Beach Underwater Camera: https://www.webcamtaxi.com/en/usa/florida/pompanobeach-underwater-pier-cam.html

LinkedIn: 

https://www.linkedin.com/in/susanadavidphd/

 https://www.linkedin.com/in/normcraig/

Books:

Revealing by Leslie John

Emotion Rules by Joshua Freedman 

Follow us on LinkedIn www.linkedin.com/in/rhondajhale/ and https://www.linkedin.com/in/katieervin/

www.jolyean.com

www.katieervin.com

Check out Rhonda's Etsy shop:  https://www.etsy.com/shop/ThingsForge

Order Dr. Katie's books: 

• 52 Weeks of LEADERship:  https://shop.ingramspark.com/b/084?params=afiG9oMq4YoXnvxsSD9PDjTrezQvZd6A7vBE1T2yaGz
• You Might Be an Asshole: https://shop.ingramspark.com/b/084?params=O4ZMvNNamwFzFFUAjJB1s6pjudAiHrUlcUX0iMUlzI6

Learn more about Catalyst LEADERs Institute:  www.katieervin.com/leaders

 
Theme music by Emma Jo https://emmajo.rocks/

Transcript

Welcome Back And Quick Catch-Up

Dr. Katie 0:32

Hi everyone. Welcome back to the Patsy Leadership. I'm Dr. Katie. And I'm Rhonda Jolene. We're so thrilled to have you. Welcome to our new listeners, which I think we have a ton, Rhonda. Yeah. We've had the last couple weeks with our guests, the Marks, both Mark, Mark Schaefer, and Mark Mears, and then our World Cup conversation. And then I have some fun stories to tell you about our asshole podcast that I didn't get a chance to tell you yet.

Rhonda Jolyean 1:04

Oh my gosh. Well, do you want to start off with that? Because our podcast today is a fun one that I'm looking forward to, but it is definitely not in the same vein as that conversation. So catch everybody up. And in fact, I know some people who just listened to that episode. So that would be an interesting follow-up to that.

Dr. Katie 1:26

Yeah. Yeah. Well, and I know you text me the day last Tuesday when it came out and was like, I have some friends who have some questions. And it's funny because

When Feedback Turns Into A Lesson

Dr. Katie 1:37

I got a text a couple days ago from a guy in my life who I love and I think he is so fantastic and so amazing. And he texted me and said, I just listened to your podcast. Were you talking about me? And I was like, No.

Rhonda Jolyean 1:57

Oh, okay. I mean, because this guy wasn't a friend.

Dr. Katie 2:00

So I he was not a friend at all. I was like, no. And he said, I was just listening to your podcast thinking, oh my gosh, I do this. I do this. I do this. And I was like, oh, okay. And as and so then I called him and was like, let's not do this on text. Let's he and he was like, so I was talking to this, this one of my peers, this man, and this is what I said to him. And he goes, I went back to him and said, Was I giving you feedback or was I an asshole? And he was like, it was a really cool conversation that we had. He was like, I was not aware enough to realize that I was not being helpful. I was just really giving feedback, telling people the things I wanted them to do it my way. And I was like, that is so cool. I'm so glad that you heard it and you reflected and had some action on it.

Rhonda Jolyean 2:55

That is amazing. And I had a similar conversation, not for me, but one of my friends that listened to the podcast said, you know, I wonder if that guy has ever been told, like obviously, he's probably done this a lot.

Dr. Katie 3:17

Yeah.

Rhonda Jolyean 3:18

A serial asshole and not probably thinks he's giving feedback, but obviously isn't. And if it's just like when we all needed to know when we weren't being inclusive, like as I'm gonna speak from a white woman's perspective, privileged white woman, when I didn't know that I was and still don't sometimes know when I am acting out on microaggressions or when I'm being racist, etc. And have you have to learn, you have to be called out on that. And my friend said, you know, this could be a person who has never been told that this is something that they do. And so she said, Well, I wonder if Katie feels like now she could go back to this person. I said, Well, I'm not gonna speak for Katie on that. But, you know, I know that if it was, I don't know because I wasn't in that situation, but if it had been somebody I worked with, it almost would be harder to say, Hey, that wasn't feedback. But even a stranger is kind of, it would make me just say, want to talk about them behind their back and not it's just such a sticky situation.

Dr. Katie 4:37

I don't know, it makes me strike it is, it is. I know, I wish I wish I had the confidence that he would take it as in a way that I I just don't think he lacks self-awareness just based on the interactions I had with him. So, yeah, there's there is a part of me that would love to go back and have the conversation with him, but also in crucial conversations, you start with the heart, and it's like, what do you hope to get out of it? He was never in my network before, he's not gonna be in my

Self-Awareness And Hard Conversations

Dr. Katie 5:07

network now. Like, there's no benefit to me. So, yeah, it's it it's been really interesting to hear the feedback on it.

Rhonda Jolyean 5:16

That is interesting. Well, I'm glad that that friend reached out, and that was cool that at least someone in your network who you care about, it made an impact on them.

Dr. Katie 5:28

Yeah, I know, I know. I was like, oh, you're so sweet, and I'm glad that you reflected and realized because I never see that from him, but also we have a close relationship, and so I value him and I value his opinion, and so yeah, it was a neat, neat dynamic. But so we're gonna jump in today. Today is actually going to be a little, as you said, just kind of a fun episode where we're gonna share some of our favorite things or ideas or things that we've come across. And this is gonna be kind of a season-ending episode for us. We're gonna take about a month break after this episode, and then we're gonna come back and and continue to have these really fun conversations.

Rhonda Jolyean 6:14

Yeah, and I thought it would be good as we are taking this quote unquote summer break. Neither one of us are taking a break, but just a little vacation from the podcast, if you will, that we leave our audience and our listeners with resources that they could continue on learning, that they could dive into, have fun with, learn, grow, keep that growth mindset going. And that's what we're gonna do here today. I always love giving people things I love and passing that on. So do you. That's what we do to each other all the time. Give each other things that we love. And so I'm hoping that people get something out of this and that maybe we can highlight other creators and content makers that are bringing things to our life.

Dr. Katie 7:03

So yeah, I love it. I love it. Well, so I know you had uh some podcast recommendations or yeah, so do you have to start?

Rhonda Jolyean 7:13

One podcast recommendation. So even though I ingest a ton of podcasts, one that I think is really beneficial is actually a neuroaesthetic podcast, which they are few and far between. But this one don't think it's super science-y, it isn't, it's actually art and mindfulness based. So the Getty Museum of Art just came out with a visual and mindfulness podcast. So if you have an iPhone or a smartphone, you've noticed that some of the podcasts are now getting visual. You can see as the podcasts are going on videos. So you could see Katie and I. Not we're not enabled on that, but some of my favorite podcasts, you can see them actually recording. While on the Getty podcast, they talk about art. And this is called the Ohm podcast that's spelled O M M M. And we're gonna put all of these links in our bio beneath so that or in the show notes that everybody can have access to these. But this is called the Ohm podcast. And basically, this is part history, part mindfulness, it's aesthetic engagement. And the host takes you through different paintings, different pieces of art that are in the Getty Museum and gives you a little bit of history, but centers, it's mindfulness. And then you can, you don't have to like I listen to it sometimes in the car. So obviously I can't look at the art while I'm doing this, but they also describe it to you. So if maybe you're visually impaired or you can't get to your phone or computer, but you could also follow along, which I love. And then they use the art to center nervous systems. And I think that this would be not only great for us as leaders, but also a really fun centering activity if you're looking for ways to think outside of the box with your team. And they are generally only, I think, 15 minutes long, is the longest one that they've had. So please check that out. It's it's awesome. I'm so excited about it. I hope more museums start doing it.

Dr. Katie 9:30

That sounds amazing. That sounds amazing. Um, well, and I have a couple. The first one is the Harvard Harvard Business Review Idea Cast. Um, I love Harvard Business Review. I get their newsletters, I get their emails, but I love the idea cast because it's they're always releasing just really great episodes that are really focused on what's happening today at work. Uh, and so to me, almost every, not all, but almost every episode is immediately applicable. Like there is a nugget that you can glean. And when I started listening to it, I went back like into their history because there's so many of them, and I was like, oh, that topic's interesting. Oh, I like that. Oh, bring me that one. And I mean, they've done it on AI and hybrid work and influence, decision making, just all kinds, so much of the type of stuff that we talk about all the time. Um, and then there's two local, Kansas City local. So, those of you that are not in Kansas City, these are two with some of my favorite people in Kans City. There's a lot of people in Kansas City that have podcasts, but there's two in particular. One is

Summer Break And Resource Send-Off

Dr. Katie 10:42

our friend Mark Schaefer, who was on the podcast a couple weeks. He and Jeff Palacio do a podcast called Four O'Clock Somewhere. And it's just kind of a kitschy little fun like podcast where they catch up with each other and talk about the work that Mark's doing, and it really rolled off from Jeff Palacio, also does the corporate couch. Um, and the corporate couch is really good. I've been a guest on it, and he just kind of does these interviews with people, not just in Kansas City, but all all around the world. But I really love four o'clock somewhere. I know Mark Schaefer's having so much fun with it, and then the other one is a Mark Schaefer connection. I would not know her without him, Jenna Washnowski. Do you know Jenna?

Rhonda Jolyean 11:30

We have talked about how I don't know Jenna, but she sounds awesome.

Dr. Katie 11:34

Yeah. Oh my gosh. I don't oh, okay. I got to connect you all. Like, she is so lovely, and you guys would get along so great. And she does it's in with and then dot dot dot. And every season it's a new in with something. And so this season it's in in with the podcast, but she is just very she comes from a very corporate wellness, self-wellness, like meditation, and she she's a dancer, like just all kinds of she just has a very calming presence and a very in-tune to herself, very common sense. Just she's so lovely and and authentic. She's who she is on the podcast, is who she is in person. I joined a new gym and doing personal training, and to my surprise, she showed up to one of the classes, and I'm like, oh, and she is like that at 7 a.m. I mean, she's just very authentic. So that's another great one for people to check out. That's great. We should have our own podcast. We need to, we need to, yes. Making a note. Okay, cool.

Rhonda Jolyean 12:45

Well, the next couple, speaking of awesome women, is actually a couple of women to follow on LinkedIn. So I have a love-hate relationship with LinkedIn. I hate all of the ads, and I love when you get great information. And two people who are doing great information, and I know I have suggested one of these people to you, Katie. One is pretty little marketer, which sounds super kitsch, and it is, but her name is Sophia or Sophie, her name is Sophie, but she is helping basically businesses take all of the guesswork out of marketing and really pull in Gen Z. And you would think, well, Rhonda, why do you have to think about that? And actually, what she does is she makes marketing fun. And so, me as an entrepreneur and as a leader, I just like being caught up on what is happening and especially with AI and marketing. And

Podcast Picks For Work And Calm

Rhonda Jolyean 13:52

she just talks about general tech and business all in one. And she makes really cute Canva posts. And I'm a huge Canva supporter, especially thinking and knowing that all small businesses need to know how to use Canva. Okay. So, and loving Canva. I love Canva so much. So she is very pro-Canva, pro-creativity, all of that. And so please go and check her out. She is awesome. She's built a business in like under six years. So great. Support small women businesses. And then also a huge one to follow that has just been so wonderful for me is Nicole Bradford. And Nicole is an AI and human expert. She has this thing called her Friday AR, AI radar. And so she basically takes a digest of everything that she's read from AI over the week, and then she reposts it of all these AI thought leaders. And she is somebody who is at every single AI conference. She does speaking. She helps AI infuse AI and strategy across ARHR in so many organizations. She knows her shit. So you're gonna want to follow her because she just gives such great nuggets on LinkedIn. And that's where I learn most of the hot topics about AI. So that's a big one. And then also just a general one that if you're not following it, that has to do with neuroscience and leadership and can also be personal and professional development, is big think. You follow big think, don't you? Yeah. Yeah. So they have got some great ones, like the latest one is Five Ways to Embrace Uncertainty. There's also stuff about how to use neuroscience, the neuroscience of games to hack your motivation. And I think of this following like digest or like online magazines or thought bubbles like Big Think is a great way to get online sources, especially to our younger generations, as a place to say, hey, have you read this content? Or hey, if you're looking for professional development online, instead of just sending them to generic digests, if you will. I used to get asked this question all of the time by my mentees of how do you learn all of these things? Or, you know, are you just going to HBR or what do you how do you learn this information? And so once you have a good list of all of your people that you're following, it's great to then pass it on because then people will share those resources with you. So those are a couple of the people I follow on LinkedIn.

Dr. Katie 16:47

Oh, I love that. I love that. Well, and a couple of my LinkedIn recommendations, one is a really new connection for me. His name is Norman Craig, and he has a group on LinkedIn called the Greater Kansas City Job Club. And he's really a neat guy. He saw me speak at Kansas City B2B, which is another. If people aren't going to Kansas City B2B, and you're in the Kansas area, it's a great networking. But he saw me speak and then he reached out and we had coffee, and he is so lovely, so lovely. But he runs this group, and really his goal is to help people find meaningful work. And so he has facilitated groups here in Kansas City that he does, but also he has this LinkedIn group, and people are sharing tips and tricks for job searches and open positions, and not all of them are here in Kansas City. And so he is just a he's a great one and just a great human with a fascinating story. We um he worked for Marion Kaufman. For those of you outside of Kans City, Mr. Kaufman owned the Kans City Royals and philanthropists and did amazing things in Kans City. And so Norman and I had coffee and we could have talked for for days, for days, for days. The other one that I love, Jenna Scott introduced me to her. I don't know her, I just follow her on LinkedIn, is Susan David, Dr. Susan David.

Rhonda Jolyean 18:29

Oh yeah.

Dr. Katie 18:29

She's good. She's phenomenal. She has the book Emotional Agility, and she really talks so much about leading management thinkers and how psychology plays into it and our strategies. I mean, she's just she's great, and she's sharing constantly these practical tips and tick tricks. I love her TED Talks. She's just good all the way around. She's a good follow.

Rhonda Jolyean 18:56

Yeah. She's got really great quotables too that she has. Good quotes. If you're looking for quotes on PowerPoints, go to her. Yeah. Um, one fun thing that I wanted to bring up in this time of, you know, people are going back to school, kids are going back to school, and seasons are transitioning here pretty soon, although it doesn't feel like it in the Midwest of the United States. I like to have something fun to focus on and to have some outside mindfulness. And if you are needing a brain break during your day and you and your team need an intentional time or something to feel hopeful about or positive about, one thing I like to do is go to the explore live nature cams at explore.org. And this are a bunch of cams that I think they're global, but I've only looked at the ones in the United States. And the one that I've been, my husband and I've been obsessed with lately is the bears that are hunting for salmon in the Alaska Catineye Park. And they are the freaking cutest things I'll ever see. They're just a bunch of fluffy bears who are getting ready for hibernation. So they basically sit in this river and it's a live cam. So you watch this all day. And they just like hunt in the they just sit in the street, and they just like the salmon's flowing, and you go. And this is a place where people can go. And the bears don't care that the people are there, but there's just live cameras, and they just watch. There's also one about for these eagle in this eagle's nest in Big Bear Lake. There's a ton, and it just makes me so hopeful, and it makes me remember how wonderful life is, how we don't deserve the things on earth, and how we need to be more respectful, all these things. So it just kind of takes you out of the rush of day-to-day. So yeah, that's an intentional brain break.

Dr. Katie 21:08

Oh my gosh. Well, and I wasn't gonna add this in, but you just made me think about it. So I just had to pull it up. So on our cruise a couple weeks ago, Abby

LinkedIn Follows For Marketing And AI

Dr. Katie 21:17

and I, my daughter, we dove for the first time. We got scuba certified, we dove for the first time. It was so amazing just to be floating under the water in the beautifulness and the sea turtles and the everything. But then we went to Lagerhead Marine Life Center, which is my daughter's favorite place in the whole wide world because it they do sea turtle rescue. And I was introduced to, I just pulled it up and now I can't stop watching it. It's Pompano Beach underwater camera, and it is literally like I the stingray just floated by, and there's all kinds of fish. And I'm like, oh my gosh, I could sit and stare and be in this moment. Oh, it's so fantastic! So yeah, I love those recommendations.

Rhonda Jolyean 22:05

If you have, yeah, if you're like thinking about maybe before a brainstorming session, or maybe it's a high anxiety day, just turn on one of these YouTube live streams. I've been in offices where they actually have just a running live stream of this on a TV constantly, you know, because it just kind of calms people down.

Dr. Katie 22:27

So yeah, that is perfect. Did you have a couple books also or a book? I do have a book.

Rhonda Jolyean 22:36

Now, this book is not suitable for work. So this is a more personal book, but it will I'll loop it back around to how it can help us as leaders. So I actually just got done reading Lena Dunham's FameSick book. Now I am a huge Lena Dunham fan, and I do believe she is the voice of our generation, which for you Lena Dunham fans out there, that is an inside joke from her sitcom girls. But she in this book addresses the effect that work and constant stress has on the body and what that does for chronic fatigue and illness. And as somebody who has been living with, I live with chronic pain and I've had lots of illness in my past, I related a lot to this. Now, of course, and she states this this is something that she she's a white privileged woman of higher socioeconomic status. And she also reflects on the fact that she couldn't even imagine what she would do if she didn't have that financial income and had her skin color, etc. So she is speaking from that voice. However, it was relatable in the sense that our healthcare system is broken and people, no matter what industry you're in, expect you, especially as a woman, to just get over things and to chill up and to constantly grind. And we've talked about that a lot. And so that was very interesting, but also validating, but also heartbreaking to read. And then she talks a lot about the demands put on us as people who identify as women. And then also, of course, there's the Hollywood inside involved. So if you're interested in that, it's a fun read too. It is heartbreaking in spots, but I think for anybody who has a team member who has dealt with illness or chronic pain or is maybe going through a wellness program, revamp, or just any human being, honestly, can relate to pieces of this book. And so I just it was timely for me to suggest this. And I thought, you know, not every book has to be always about business or professional development. And so I think this was a good perspective to take from the other side if you're a leader who maybe has team members who are going through through something like that.

Dr. Katie 25:23

Yeah. Oh, that sounds so good. Sounds so good. Well, and it ties to uh it's so funny. I used to read for enjoyment all the time, and then through my doctorate, I've kind of gotten away from it. And I'm like, I need to get back to it. So I've got to get back to reading for enjoyment. But my books are business books because that's my life. I gotta get better at it. One is Revealing by Leslie John, and this is I haven't read it fully. I'm working through it, but this is like one of those like really big talked-about books this year because she talks about why appropriate vulnerability builds trust and influence rather than diminishing credibility. So she's really encouraging people to be authentic, leans into personal branding, which is all the stuff that I talk about. And so someone had recommended after they saw me talk, they were like, Have you read this book revealing? Because it is so in line with everything that you do. So I'm working through it, and then the next on my pile of books to read is Emotion Rules by Joshua Friedman. And what's fascinating is he's spent years and years and years researching emotional intelligence, and this book really focuses less on controlling our emotions and more, like we talk about using his data. Really, the emotions aren't the problem, it's that we ignore them or that we cast them off or that we don't lean into them. And so I'm really excited to read the book and to be able to apply so much of this because I've been on this real

Live Nature Cams For Brain Breaks

Dr. Katie 27:02

kick lately of especially not all women, but a lot of women are deemed as emotional because we cry at work. However, men are emotional at work, it just doesn't come out in tears, it comes out in slamming stuff down or slamming a chair or raising their voice. That is also being emotional, it just comes off differently. And so I've I've been talking a lot about that lately, and so I'm excited to to read read that book as well.

Rhonda Jolyean 27:35

Uh I think that that sounds fascinating. I feel as if, well, the word feel, right? And Brene Brown didn't say this, she just reinstated it. We say the word feelings for a reason because we feel them in our bodies. And that is the thing that we as as human beings have forgotten that it's in our bodies. And so the reason that people quote unquote act out or have these different emotions that work their way out in tears or yelling or is because they are we feel them somewhere in our bodies and they have to come out somehow. And even if we then suppress them, they then become chronic pain, et cetera. So I love that. And I think it's interesting. There's so many layers to how we deal with that at work versus home versus as a society, etc. And I'm glad that people are talking about it more because obviously, even eight years ago when I was in the corporate world, you know, individual people didn't make me feel bad, but it just wasn't something that we were talking about as much. And it wasn't cool, quote unquote, to talk about your pain or how you felt or your emotions, etc. And I do, you know, I am thankful that younger generations are kind of pushing for people to be more vulnerable in that instance. Yeah, I agree. I agree. I'll be interested to hear what you think about that book.

Dr. Katie 29:15

So yeah, yeah, I'm excited to to dig into it. Yeah, okay.

Rhonda Jolyean 29:21

Those are some good, fun things. I mean, I wrote down yours, and I do, you know, I am giving my list to Katie, and Katie's gonna put everything, links in the show notes and and that also. Everybody can have that, and hopefully have a lot of things to tell us when we get back from our break. Hopefully, you like some things, or maybe you didn't, and you want to tell us about it. Who knows?

Dr. Katie 29:48

Yeah, absolutely. And during our break, we encourage people to go back and listen to podcasts that you missed from The Path to Leadership. There, you know, we've had a great season with Rhonda's co-host. There were been seasons where I was solo, and then I also had Emma and Jenna with me. And so it's it's really evolved, which has been really fun. And and I'm really excited for future. I have a whole list here of things we talked about of for next season having Jenna Woznowski on. I talked about how I hate high performer programs, so we're gonna talk about that. How we hate where companies say, We're a family, we're a family. So we're gonna talk

Books On Wellness Vulnerability Emotions

Dr. Katie 30:27

about that. But we want to hear from everyone else. What do you want us to talk about? What guests do you want us to have? Where does it make sense? Reach out to us, you can connect with us on LinkedIn, you can respond to the podcast on your favorite podcast platform, and we will do our best to have an episode about it. Yeah, definitely. Yay! All right. Well, thank you everyone for listening. Thank you for all of your feedback and the conversations and for engaging with the podcast. It desperately helps us when you share the podcast with others, when you rate the podcast on your on your platform. It always is so helpful as our our platform continues to grow. We love having these conversations. We would have them over coffee, whether we were recording or not. But it is fun to bring other people into the conversation as well.

Rhonda Jolyean 31:20

We're so thankful for everybody that has already reached out and people from around the world. Um maybe we'll get some more listeners from Germany and new listeners from I don't think we have anybody on the continent of Africa yet.

Dr. Katie 31:36

So that would be cool. Yeah, I don't know. We had so new this week. We had someone from Longmont, Colorado. Not sure where that is from Tokyo, from Georgetown, Kentucky. We got Asia, yeah. We got Asia, Georgetown, Kentucky, Janesville, Wisconsin. So several new locations, which is really fun. Ashburn, Virginia. Johannesburg, we did have nice, yeah. So I think other than Antarctica, we've got it, we've got it covered. So we need some people doing some research in Antarctica to tune in.

Rhonda Jolyean 32:20

Or Nicole Kidman, because she flies down there regularly.

Dr. Katie 32:24

So anyone who knows Nicole, tell her to listen in Antarctica. Yes, or come on the podcast, you know. That would be great too. That would be great too. Oh my gosh. All right. Well, we will be back in about a month. And in the meantime, just keep learning and growing and uh reach out to us. We can't wait to hear from you.

Rhonda Jolyean 32:46

Yeah. Everyone, have a great end to your summer, and we are looking forward to having an awesome fall, and we will talk soon. All right.

Dr. Katie 32:56

Thanks for listening to us on The Path to Leadership, and we'll talk to you next time. Bye, everyone. Bye.