Stop Believing Every Thought

A single vague email can hijack your whole week, and your brain will swear it’s “just being realistic.” We sit down on a Friday afternoon and get honest about the stories we tell ourselves, where they come from, and why they feel so convincing, especially when we’re leading teams, presenting in high-stakes rooms, or simply trying to get through a busy day.

We talk about the subtle ways we reject compliments, deflect praise, and act like we have to earn every kind word. Then we zoom out to the psychology behind it: negativity bias, pattern matching, and the brain’s obsession with predictability. The result is familiar to a lot of leaders: we remember the one negative comment on a survey, fixate on the hardest employee, and miss the 497 things that went well. We also unpack confirmation bias and the “mind movie” effect, where we start searching for evidence that someone is judging us even when we don’t know what’s actually going on in their life.

You’ll leave with practical tools you can use immediately: journaling or saving positive feedback, using your Notes app or voice memos, even texting yourself so you can build a real record of wins to reread on hard days. We also share reflection questions that help separate fact from story, and why professional support like counselling can be a powerful part of rewriting old narratives. If this helped you, subscribe, share it with a friend who’s stuck in their head, and leave a review so more leaders can find us.

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Theme music by Emma Jo https://emmajo.rocks/

Transcript

Welcome And Series Kickoff

Dr. Katie 0:00

Hi everyone and welcome back to the Path to Leadership. I'm Dr. Katie.

Rhonda Jolyean 0:04

And I'm Rhonda Jolene.

Dr. Katie 0:06

We are so thrilled to have you. We are recording on a Friday. So, like every part of my body, even though it comes out on Tuesday, wants to say happy Friday.

Rhonda Jolyean 0:15

Friday afternoon, no less. So it's we're acting as if we have nine to five jobs, Katie, and that we are getting off. Like we have a set schedule.

Dr. Katie 0:29

You're so right. I feel like I'm like getting ready to like punch the clock and move on, which we both know it's not never happens.

Rhonda Jolyean 0:36

No, never for us, thankfully.

Dr. Katie 0:39

Well, I'm so excited for us to continue our series on the stories we tell ourselves. And I know I've had a couple people talk to me about last week's episode and how much they loved it and it resonated with them. I wonder, have you heard from anyone?

Rhonda Jolyean 0:55

Yes, I did. And I did hear from a couple of people that they haven't heard, they haven't listened to it yet, but that they are excited to listen to it. And I'm looking forward to hearing that feedback. The feedback that I've gotten so far is that people absolutely align with it. We all deal with this. I actually was thinking about it a lot in the past week, just catching myself more thinking, what am I telling myself? Or like I said last week, the question that I constantly ask myself that helps is what am I carrying that is not mine? So actually, I just asked myself that three times today when my heart felt really heavy and when I knew I was telling myself stories that were super negative and just making things up just to make myself feel bad. So hopefully we get some people that that can help them. And we're gonna go deeper today with you know, where do our stories come from and really focusing in on the individual. So us as people and as leaders.

Dr. Katie 2:06

Yeah, yeah. And it's it's interesting because

Why We Struggle To Take Praise

Dr. Katie 2:10

I think a lot about the stories I tell myself, but I spend more and more time on this topic of where these stories come from. You know, the the times that I react strongly to something and I'm like, gosh, what why did that impact me so much? Like, chill out. It's not that big a deal. Or even, I mean, we talk so much to women. Uh women are really bad at this, but even men sometimes, like when someone compliments us and we're like, no, no, no, no, no, no. Right. My good friend Tina Bradeine, she is heaven, she's a real estate agent here in Kansas City. If you need a good real estate agent, shout out Tina. But more importantly, like when she introduces me, she does this great introduction where she's like, This is my friend Katie, and she's so wonderful, and she's a badass. And every time she does it, I'm like, Yeah, I am. Yes, yeah, I am. But you think about how many times we dismiss that, right? We we do it so often.

Rhonda Jolyean 3:10

Absolutely, and not only that, one thing that we talked about last time was one of the stories that a lot of women, a lot of people in the Midwest have is that you have to earn achievement and compliments. I know for myself, one thing that I do is I I'm getting better at it. One thing that I used to do though, and I think I was raised this way again. Mom and my dad, when he was alive, love you, you're doing the best that you could, but it was almost unsaid that when someone gave you a compliment, you had to immediately say something about them. And really, if like yesterday, I was in the post office and this woman had an amazing tattoo on her arm. And I said, I am obsessed with your tattoo, it's so beautiful. And she said, Thanks, and immediately in her next breath, she said, I love your glasses. I was wearing my red glasses that people know, and so that was great. That was a great exchange. However, if she didn't really like my glasses, she could have paused and just accepted it, the tattoo comment, and then just taken a beat and really said, Thank you. I love it so much. And we don't have to earn that compliment. We can really just take it. Or if somebody says, that was a brilliant idea in a meeting, or you know, you don't have to say, Oh, thank you. I love your ideas too. And so I'm getting better at that. It's really difficult, especially at work, I think, when we have a leader who tells us, you've done a really good job. Andor even peers. I think maybe it's harder for peers when we say, Oh, you know, we get a compliment from them not to immediately say it back. I know it was for me. And it's not that those aren't real compliments that we get back to them. It's just that knee-jerk reaction when really that's also doing us a disservice too. We're not accepting it and it's doing a disservice to the compliment to that person gives us.

Dr. Katie 5:19

So yeah, yeah. I think there's such great value in just soaking in the you know, the compliment and hearing it. Like for me, I've really in the past year, like really hear it down in my soul. Like when someone says something, I'm like, yeah, I am. And I do a personal branding workshop all the time. And I've done it two times already this month for my ladies at Driving Pursuits. I'm getting ready to do it for another group of ladies here is coming up. And one of the activities I have them do is send an email to at least five people. I like when they do 20 and say, you know, what are the words you think of when you think of me? And it's such a fun exercise in how people see us. And I it just it's it's really cool. And doing that exercise helps me really be like, yeah, accept, accept how the universe sees you and celebrate that.

Rhonda Jolyean 6:16

I love that so much, Katie. And I also love it because as you and I have discussed, our one of our main themes in life is legacy and our value is legacy. And we know that time is short here on earth. And when you think things about people, you should really tell them that. That's kind of a side note. But when somebody does tell you that, you do, like Katie says, need to accept that deep in your soul because that those are few and far between where people really take the time to do that these days. And you're also respecting that person who told you that.

Dr. Katie 6:54

Yeah, yeah. And it's you know, we talk about this all the time about our brains, and and really the the stories we tell ourselves, they don't start today, like they've developed over years, and our brain, we say this all the time, right? Our brain is here to keep us safe, not necessarily happy or accurate. And we talked

Your Brain Chooses Safety Over Truth

Dr. Katie 7:15

about last week and we've talked about before, where it will fill in gaps with missing information. And really, our brains are just looking for patterns and predictability, so it can go on autopilot.

Rhonda Jolyean 7:26

How sad is that that our brains not only are they built towards negativity bias, but that they are looking for patterns. They are not going to just focus on the here and now. They are really made to accumulate. I kind of think about it as AI, really. They're made to accumulate all that information. For those of you out there that have been using Chat GPT or Claude or Copilot, and I don't know how often you do this, but I've been doing this a lot lately where I say, forget everything you know about me and just give me a straight answer. And that's kind of how I think about our brains is it, you know, what patterns it takes from the past and then it makes this prediction. And sometimes you just think, no, I just want to deal with the here and now and let my my feelings and my body figure it out. So you when you're in that negativity bias, just remember that too, that your brain is definitely doesn't have your best interest in mind.

Dr. Katie 8:42

Yeah, yeah, and it thinks it does, right? Like it thinks it's helping you survive. Because really, thousands of years ago, our our brains have evolved, right? But it was about paying attention to danger and keeping us alive and constantly scanning for those threats and risks and problems and all that. And so our brains now cannot distinguish between a saber-toothed tiger coming around the corner or a critical email. It just can't distinguish the difference anymore.

Rhonda Jolyean 9:16

And then that one, you know, because of how our brains don't have our best interest in mind, or how they, you know, are really helping us to survive, not thrive, as you said, it bleeds into the boardroom, it br bleeds into leadership meetings. So, what are some of the things that you've seen in your work, Katie, from leadership examples?

Dr. Katie 9:46

Yeah, yeah, it's interesting. I mean I I have several examples, but the one that really stands out to me is I love to do keynotes. And you know, I'll speak in front of a room of 500 people and I'll get the feedback back, and it's overwhelmingly positive. And maybe a couple people, like one time I got a comment that I talk about my family too much in my keynotes. And it's like, first of all, who is

Negativity Bias In Leadership Life

Dr. Katie 10:12

that person? And second of all, let me talk to them so they can understand how great my family is and why. And it's like, no, focus on the 497 great comments, not the three negative or like we'll have one difficult employee that consumes all of our energy, and we have 10 phenomenal employees that we really need to be spending time celebrating and praising them as opposed to just focusing on that one hard employee that makes life so difficult for us.

Rhonda Jolyean 10:42

That's so true. And you can reflect individually and think about this too. Think about all of the past leadership 360 assessments you've had on yourself or any other kind of work reflections, any kind of promotions, etc. And think about all the comments that people have made. And the ones that are going to stand out the most are the ones that really hit your heart in a negative way, not the positive ones. And that's why I have to, when somebody says something so wonderful, this is unselfish. I write it down. I have to write it down. Or when they send it to an email and email me, I put it in document and then I print it out and then I put it in my journal. I everyone knows if you listen to this podcast, I'm a huge journaler, but I put it somewhere where I can go back and say, on days where my brain is just going completely negative or I feel like I haven't done anything in life, then I go back and I say, Oh, wait, no, these people, this is the evidence in which my brain is wrong. And these people are telling me otherwise. And then I remember those times. So I think if everybody can reflect on that, it's it's the exact same thing. And I really like that example about your surveys because that rings completely true for a lot of us.

Dr. Katie 12:17

Yeah, yeah. Well, and I I think it's so important, you know, as we end the week, each week, we should really think about, you know, what are the what are the positive things that happened this week that you barely notice because your attention was so focused on the hard stuff, the things that went wrong, the, you know, things you couldn't fix or change or get done. And so it's it's almost sitting in some reflection, you could really do it every day. Like what are the things that I didn't pause to notice because I was living in the negative negativity bias.

Rhonda Jolyean 12:49

Yeah. And you know, something I don't love doing this, but let's face it, we live in a technology-based world and a fast-paced world. I, if I'm out and about and I am at a happy hour, or I'm at a meeting where I don't have, it's rare that I don't have a pen and paper, but let's say I don't, or you're on the phone with somebody, I open up my notes app and then I write down something that even if it's trivial that someone said positive about me, or that I notice, even a nice exchange between strangers that made the world feel like a better place. You know, I put it in my notes and then I can transfer it to my journal. Or maybe if you're a person who likes to put it in a day planner or somebody who just keeps it in your notes and then you want to organize it later, that's a quick, easy way. Instead of saying thinking, hey, Katie and Rhonda, how am I going to remember all this stuff or where I'm going to put it? You know, just put it in a notes app or voice memo. Oh my gosh, people are doing voice memo. And then you can just import it into Claude or Copilot any either of those ways. And then it can have it, you know, I don't know, or you can go old school and make a word cloud.

Dr. Katie 14:02

Oh, that'd be cool. Yeah. Well, and I just learned, I know people probably know this. I'm gonna say this, and people are like, Yeah, I do it all the time. You can text yourself. I didn't know you could text with your own phone number. Yes, yeah. Okay, okay, timeout.

Rhonda Jolyean 14:16

I like to pride myself on being an early adopter of tech, especially with a very savvy tech partner. What are you talking about? Yeah, how do we do this? No, teach us, please teach us.

Dr. Katie 14:28

You just in your you open your text and then you put in your cell phone number and then you send yourself a text message and it comes through. I just did it a little while ago. Someone had told me about it, and I've done it a couple of times, and then I was just we're trying to find fun Thursday night patios in Kans City. So if anyone has recommendations, let us know. Because my husband and daughter and I want to do Thursday night patio night. And I passed a place and I was like, that's cute. And then I talked to my

Saving Positive Proof For Hard Days

Dr. Katie 14:55

phone and I said, Hey, text myself, and it did. Yeah.

Rhonda Jolyean 15:00

Do you know how thankful my Gmail account is going to be to you? Because how my my Gmail account is full, 75% full of just emails to myself.

Dr. Katie 15:13

I do that. Yeah, yeah.

Rhonda Jolyean 15:15

There you go. Little gift for you. That's awesome. I love that. Thank you. No, don't ever assume that people know things.

Dr. Katie 15:23

Don't ever so extra credit homework that won't be graded. Text yourself positive things that happen throughout the day.

Rhonda Jolyean 15:32

I like that too. And then when you're doing that, text somebody else the things that you think about them because this world, man, we need it. We need that positive thing. We do.

Dr. Katie 15:43

We do. And it's, and I mean, it ties into the next bias, which is confirmation bias. Once we believe something, we start looking for evidence. So if we think that we're bad at something, or we think that we've disappointed people, or we think that you know, people aren't happy with us, we start looking for clues. Our brain loves consistency, and so it's just looking for for those type of things, and and we'll look for anything that will support the belief of the negativity bias.

Rhonda Jolyean 16:15

You know, I have a personal example and then a work example. My personal example is lately, and I'm gonna give it up, but I had given up pop for 20 years. 20 years I gave up pop. And then lately I haven't been drinking alcohol that much. And so I and I can't drink sparkling water for health reasons. And that sounds weird to say that I can drink pop, but I started drinking pop in the last nine months. Well, my husband hates this, hates it. And I he said it out loud, but he finally started keeping his mouth shut. But every time I bring a pop into the house, I look at his eyes and I'm like, he's judging, he's judging, he's judging, he's judging. You know, I look for it, you know, because I know in my brain, and it, you know, even though he could be looking at the dogs while I walk in, or who knows, you know? And then in, and by the way, I'm gonna slowly give up pop this week. I'm gonna say that out loud so I do it. Okay, but no judgment to those who drink pop. I at work, I had a senior executive once who was a very hard read. And this happens a lot when there's upper management and you're in upper management. This person was a very hard read. And so when you when your brain gets specifically emails and you don't know the tone of that email, yeah, this person had sent an email, it was very vague. It was could have been mistaken for this person's tone was a little angry at me. So then I started making up these movie reels in my head, these stories about how this person was mad at me and the way that they were looking at me and walking and not saying hi to me and all of this, and then come to find out later that this person, you know, was dealing with family stuff outside of work. And that was, you know, this went on for a week. And I, you know, made up this how much stress did my mind put on me because of this, you know. And so in that situation, what I would have told myself is I don't know if I would have, I probably would have asked the person, hey, can you clarify this email for me? And even then, if they were upset, I, you know, you can't take other people's emotions to heart, which is hard, harder to do than or easier to say than to do in reality. However, I would have known sooner than just, you know, waiting it out and making up these stories in my head. So again, we never know what's going on in people's lives. We can only control our own emotions and our brains are not our best friend all the time.

Dr. Katie 19:21

Yeah, yeah. And it really, I love what you said about what you could have done. Cause really, you know, my recommendation is always thinking about, you know, what stories have I already decided about this person, about this situation, about the moment, and then asking the question, what am I ignoring? Like, what is the outside stuff that you know, we're not gonna know the personal stuff, we're not gonna know what led up to

Confirmation Bias And Made Up Movies

Dr. Katie 19:45

them on their drive to work, things like that. So, what evidence are we ignoring? And if I believe the opposite, what would I notice? Like if I if I believe they're mad at me, I'm gonna notice everything. But if I believe that things are great and things are good and there's probably something else going on, then what would I see? Because so often we don't really see we don't see reality as it is, we see reality that we expect it to be. Yeah, but I think the answer is gonna be here.

Rhonda Jolyean 20:16

That pattern matching again.

Dr. Katie 20:17

Yeah, yeah.

Rhonda Jolyean 20:18

And there's that, you know, that consistency bias, and it just it's a vicious cycle. Yeah, yeah. Our brains can be vicious.

Dr. Katie 20:28

It can. And then I think what is the most challenging is our brain remembers criticism longer than praise. And there's research out there that suggests it takes multiple positive experiences to offset just one negative experience. It just that negativity just cement in our brain and quite frankly, sometimes in our heart. And it's so much harder to get that out or to you know fight against what's already in there.

Rhonda Jolyean 21:02

That is truly sad, and it also makes me wonder, or it makes you think about what's happening with social media for every is it the same for every one consumption of or for every 10 consumptions of, or no, I have it backwards, for every one consumption of negative information, you know, input, do we have to see 10 positives, which we don't, you know, that's that's scary to think about. And it's also scary to think, you know, we know we have a loneliness epidemic. We know that we have people who are so sad and there's so much pain in the world. And 10 for everyone. I mean, you can really bring a person down. And we as leaders too have to really be cognizant of the way that we speak to people, not only because they are human beings. And we want them to be productive and we want to have great teams, but because you can truly do damage to folks when you give a criticism.

Dr. Katie 22:10

Yeah, you can. And you know, I you're so on point with social media and even with email or text, right? It's so easy for people to fire off harsh comments and criticism and feedback that can just be so psychologically and mentally damaging. You know, it just it's really powerful. And that criticism is truly a threat to our belonging and our competence and our identity. Like it everything about belonging and acceptance can be damaged by the criticism. And sometimes it's these throwaway, not even intended to be criticism, that our brain is like, oh, see, yep, here we go. This is what we knew was out there.

Rhonda Jolyean 22:55

Right. Right. Well, it's like the story that I told last time about being wishwashy. My mom saying that I was wishwashy, and that wasn't at all what she meant to be negative, but it was and it was a comment that she probably didn't even think about. If I even mentioned it to her, I mean, she hasn't said that she listened to the podcast last week, but if she when she listens to this, you know, she probably is like, what? I didn't even know, you know, it's we have to be thinking about how our words impact other people.

Dr. Katie 23:28

Yeah. And you know, it's interesting because when I lead meetings, I have a client that I lead meetings for, and we always lead the meeting with, you know, what went well last week? Like, what are the praises and celebrations? And when we first started doing it, it was like pulling teeth, you know, so it was so slow. Now they've gotten really good at it, but it's so easy to remember the negative stuff that happened last week, last year, 10 years ago, all that stuff. But it's so hard for us to remember the really great things that just happened a day or two ago, those compliments received that that we received, the hard work that someone else did. We can remember the criticism so easy.

Rhonda Jolyean 24:14

I don't love that.

Dr. Katie 24:16

I know, I know, I know, and even when I ask people like, give me characteristics of the best boss you ever had, they struggle. And then I'm like, tell me about the worst boss you ever had. And it's like, and this, and this, and this, and it's like, oh boy.

Rhonda Jolyean 24:32

Yes.

Dr. Katie 24:34

Let's think about some positive things.

Rhonda Jolyean 24:37

Yes, let's let's start praising people more for the positive things and really lifting that up in society.

Dr. Katie 24:46

And you know, yeah, and we really have to be intentional, it

Criticism Sticks And Teams Feel It

Dr. Katie 24:50

has to be repeated, right? It we have to, if if employees are constantly hearing criticism, if they're constantly hearing correction and silence, they're gonna think I'm failing, I'm not valued, nothing I do is enough, I'm gonna get fired, like all of those name negative things. So we gotta help create these healthier stories and help them grow confidence, so then their engagement grows and really they feel safer working with us and for us. Absolutely. Yeah. It's it's so much. And and you know, as we think about this, we gotta think about where we learn these stories. You know, we've learned these stories from old jobs, we've all talked about them from high school family messages. You've talked about it. I have those stories, relationships, social media. It's really interesting. We Rob and I did our call with Jason last night to do it's Rob's birthday week. Happy birthday week, Rob, and our anniversary is coming up. So we did the our astrological charts with Jason, and even just talking about kind of our where we were born and and you know, kind of what we're the universe has in front of us. I mean, there's just whether you believe it or not, there's just so many reasons of why these stories are are in play for us.

Rhonda Jolyean 26:15

Mm-hmm. And again, just putting verbiage and having this awareness is step one. Then you can start doing something about it, asking the why and then asking the how to change, but we have to first start putting names to things to be able to change ourselves.

Dr. Katie 26:38

Yeah, yeah. And you know, even thinking about why do I feel that way? Is it because I felt my whole life that I've had to prove myself or that I have to be perfect, or if if I say something at work, people will leave, or people will not value me. Like there's so many things that we learn growing up and early in our career that it's no wonder we're making up stories to to keep us alive, not happy.

Rhonda Jolyean 27:07

Yep.

Dr. Katie 27:08

So yeah. Well, and and there's definitely reflection we can do. We've kind of sprinkled some throughout here, but the first thing is we can't change things that we don't recognize, that we don't acknowledge. And so awareness is really the beginning of that. And so we've got to really think about what stories show up most often. What are the tone of the stories? Where are they originating? And is it serving you? Do we need to change the stories and just rewrite them?

Rhonda Jolyean 27:39

Right. Yeah. And again, like I, you know, was discussing that awareness is this is why we're kind of dissecting this and doing this series is because we want to have awareness, and that's the beginning of growth. It's like I was just talking to my sister about something. Oh, it was about how Russell and I are obsessed with our dogs. And I said, Well, admitting you have a problem is the first step. And it's, you know, admitting that we have stories in our head is the first step. Awareness is the beginning of growth, you know. And I truly believe that, you truly believe that. And again, putting names to things. So, like you said, where does this story come from? Oh, wait, I it came from my childhood, or it came from a boss, or you know, and we're not, you know, we didn't make this disclaimer like we did last time, but we will right now. We are not saying that we are psychologists because we are not, and we do encourage people to see counselors and psychologists outside of obviously this podcast, but to get professional help just in

Naming The Story And Changing It

Rhonda Jolyean 28:50

general, but specifically to dissect your own stories because that only helps bolster your awareness and your growth in that. And we have both done that, and also, you know, they can help with specific steps and any trauma or and or any um physical and and mental challenges that might come with that as well.

Dr. Katie 29:16

Yeah, yeah, completely agree. And I I I love I love all of that, and it is true. We we are not therapists, we we adore therapists, we we know that they're so powerful and they really help us to understand the stories we're telling ourselves and and really that the stories aren't facts, they're interpretations that we've carried through the years, and so the more we can be aware of them and acknowledge them, has great power. So yeah.

Rhonda Jolyean 29:45

I like asking, is this a story? Is this a fact? Or is this a story? Yeah, no, is this a story? Is this a fact? Yeah, yeah. Man, my brain is on Friday time.

Dr. Katie 29:58

Yeah, yeah. I love it. Well, and and what's so cool is the next episode that we're doing in this series, we're really moving from the stories we tell ourselves to the stories leaders tell about their teams. We've kind of sprinkled some of this in here, but because assumptions don't stay in our heads, they eventually influence how we lead, how we treat people, how we impact people. This is going to be a big challenge to leaders of, you know, how do we lead knowing the stories that that we're telling ourselves?

Rhonda Jolyean 30:33

Yeah, that'll be good, a good reflection for people, whether you lead a team or you're an individual contributor who leads work, projects, etc. I think that will be really great awareness to then start figuring out how you start dissecting those stories. Yeah. Yeah. It'll be perfect.

Dr. Katie 30:53

So well, as always, thank you to all the people that listen and that share and that pass on the podcast and give us feedback. We we love to hear how it's resonated with you, or maybe that you do or don't agree with something.

Rhonda Jolyean 31:12

Yes. And we look forward to hearing about some of the stories that you've learned along the way. Feel free to

Next Steps And How To Reach Us

Rhonda Jolyean 31:20

DM us, email us. As usual, we are always open to any reviews or any feedback. And if you will subscribe and follow the show, that helps us out more than you know. And we just cannot thank you enough for all the support you've already given us.

Dr. Katie 31:37

Yeah, I love it. All right. Well, thank you everyone for listening to this week's Path to Leadership. And we'll talk to you next week. Bye, everyone. Bye.