What If Doubt Is Proof You Are Growing

Imposter syndrome has a sneaky way of showing up right when you are doing the work that matters most: presenting in a big meeting, taking a new role, leading a team through change, or simply being seen. We talk honestly about why that doubt does not automatically mean you are unqualified. Sometimes it is the signal that you are stretching, learning, and building a growth mindset. The goal is not to eliminate imposter syndrome forever, but to manage the negativity bias so it does not run your decisions or shrink your voice.

We break down practical leadership tools you can use immediately: building a real support system and advisory group, “borrowing confidence” when you need it, and keeping an evidence list of wins and hard things you have already survived. We also challenge comparison, especially the trap of measuring your beginning against someone else’s polished middle, and we explain why asking questions is a strength that creates psychological safety. If you have ever felt pressure to perform rather than serve, we offer a cleaner focus: impact over image.

Then we go deeper into nervous system regulation, because overwhelmed humans do not lead well. We share approachable ways to reset through creativity practices, journaling and reflection, aesthetic engagement, and making room for fun and pleasure without guilt. From there, we zoom out to the team level: how insecurity can look like disengagement, why belonging drives contribution, and how a feedback culture built on coaching helps confidence grow.

If this helps you, subscribe, share it with a colleague who is stretching into something new, and leave a rating and review so more leaders can find the show. What triggers your imposter syndrome most right now?

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Transcript

Welcome And Listener Shoutouts

Dr. Katie 0:00

Hi everyone and welcome back to the Path to Leadership. I'm Dr. Katie and I'm Rhonda Jolene. And we are so thrilled to have you with us this week. Whether you're a new listener or an OG listener, thank you so much for downloading and listening to the podcast.

Rhonda Jolyean 0:18

Yeah, I've been hearing from a lot of people who listen to us in their cars, or they've been listening to us doing chores. That's when I like to listen to podcasts. Or some people have been taking time during the workday when they have leadership development hours. And that's really cool. I definitely would have loved to listen to leadership development podcasts in my old corporate jobs when we had those types of like Fruit Friday hours or, you know, no meetings afternoons, et cetera. So thank you to all of you who have told us about that. We could not be more thrilled and we just appreciate your support.

Dr. Katie 1:00

Yeah, yeah. I think that's such a neat idea. And I also find it so interesting as businesses are kind of adapting to their employees' needs and trying to find a cadence that works for the organization. I I really am intrigued by these organizations that do the no meeting. Like you

No Meeting Time And Summer Fridays

Dr. Katie 1:20

were mentioning a friend that has like Wednesday afternoons. I just think that's really, really great. I just worry, are they like shoving everything into like two days of the week? It's like, oh, then you have to meet that's a whole other podcast.

Rhonda Jolyean 1:35

I don't know. Maybe we can have a we can have an interviewer discussion about that. But I will say my husband's company has Friday, free afternoon Fridays or summer Fridays, they call it. And that is for it's only during the summer, so it's a certain time period, and that is really to rejuvenate and rest. And so if we go back to our French Sunday podcast, they are literally giving them time to recuperate, to connect, to do nothing. The expectation is to be off of email, be off of the computer, spend time with friends and family, and to reconnect and rejuvenate and spend time in the nice weather. Hopefully, if you're in the Midwest, you never know. But that I really appreciate and he really appreciates. And so I think more companies are understanding that small things like this can really benefit employee engagement.

Dr. Katie 2:34

Yeah, yeah, that's such a cool idea. Um, many years ago when Rob and I both worked corporate jobs, we would take PTO at two hours of PTO on Friday afternoons and go play golf. And that was always so much fun to just have some time that nobody knew where we were. We weren't on our phones, nothing. So yeah, good times.

Rhonda Jolyean 2:54

That's so fun. Oh, golf. We need to go golfing together sometime. You'll have to be real, it'll be slow, but I'll be there.

Dr. Katie 3:00

Anytime, anytime. Now it's full on golf season with the weather warming up

Golf As Connection And Leadership

Dr. Katie 3:05

and it being so lovely, like uh, and oh my gosh, Katie.

Rhonda Jolyean 3:08

I just had an idea. What if we got to the point where we were doing in-person golf sessions with our supporters, and we just showed up somewhere, we all had fun, we talked about work and whatever people wanted to, and we just had a good time. It was a connection. I want people to write in and message us and tell us if they would be interested in doing that. And of course, there would be the people who were more intermediate and advanced that could go with Katie, and then there'd be the fun habbers that could come with me.

Dr. Katie 3:41

Well, and you know, it's so funny because I have been working with supporting loving on driving pursuits. Shout out Melissa and Gretchen who created driving pursuits. And so this is my fourth year. And for people who are listening that don't know driving pursuits, they it's it introduces women to golf. And so it's a 12-week program, and they have pros doing lessons, and they have mentors like me that take women out. I have a mentor around this week, which I'm super excited about. So I take newbies out who've never played before, and then I do professional development for them, which is super fun. Well, they just expanded to Wichita. Jessica, who's in Wichita, is leading that force, and they are a phenomenal group. I was down there last week doing professional development for them, but then you got me on a whole tangent. I'm so excited. But then a company reached out to me and said, Hey, we have a group of 30 ladies. We, you know, want to create some type of, so it's called Lynx and Leadership. And it is a company here in Kansas City that they on their own, they have women in the organization that golf, so they're teaching them golf, but then I'm coming in and doing leadership development for them. That's so I know. I'm so excited. I actually have created a some curriculum around like the how you play a golf hole is very similar to how you kind of have your leadership journey.

Rhonda Jolyean 5:11

You have told me about that, and I want to see that in action. I also want to clarify because we do have international listeners. So Wichita, when Katie says Wichita, she's talking about Wichita, Kansas. So that is where I'm from, and that is smack in the middle of the United States in the heartland. So just to let you know where we're discussing, but that is amazing. And yeah, I love these types of engagement. And I don't know how we're getting on employee engagement, but also just fun, having a good time. And today we're gonna talk about, you know, similar, similar but dissimilar topic, more of the tangible ways in which we can manage what we talked about last week, which is imposter syndrome.

Dr. Katie 6:02

Yeah, yeah. And you know, it's so interesting because as we're talking about employee engagement and talking about all that stuff, what but got us to women in golf, and you want to talk about imposter syndrome for so many women, and and men have it too, and we talked about it last week. It's

Why Imposter Syndrome Sticks Around

Dr. Katie 6:20

it's not, it's not no one's special. We all have imposter syndrome at some point, but like we promised the listeners last week, we're gonna dig in and talk about how we manage it and how some kind of tips and tricks and things that we've used throughout our our life, because really, and one of us mentioned, I think it was you mentioned it last week, we're never gonna fully get away from imposter syndrome, it's never going to end. But how do we really fix some of these some some insecurities or or or voices in our head, things like that? Right.

Rhonda Jolyean 6:55

Because the imposter syndrome, we don't want it to go away. The imposter syndrome that we want to manage are the negativity bias that our brain naturally goes towards. We want to have imposter syndrome, ironically, because that means that we have a growth mindset and that we are stretching ourselves and doing something new. So, Katie and I want to give everybody ways that we can manage it in a healthy way and that we can grow and stretch in ways that feel more positive and authentic as we are taking on new possibilities and challenges in our lives.

Dr. Katie 7:31

Perfect. Perfect. Well, so I'm gonna run through a few strategies and then I'm gonna pass the baton and have you talk about your strategies, and then we'll we'll talk about some other kind of tips and tricks that we've learned. So, some of the strategies that I when I talk about how we work through imposter syndromes, one is to have a really strong advisory group andor support system.

Support Systems And Evidence Lists

Dr. Katie 7:55

People are so great at reminding us our strengths and giving us honest feedback. And really, when we're in isolation, is when our the voices in our head are louder or that doubt creeps in. And it's really not leadership's not meant to be alone, so we really have to surround ourselves.

Rhonda Jolyean 8:16

Sometimes we have to borrow confidence from other people, of like that, borrowing the confidence, and also it's kind of the osmosis being around other people will affect you and your energy.

Dr. Katie 8:31

Yeah, yeah. And when we come at it from a growth mindset, we're not looking at them versus us. It's that how do I how do I pull in all of the the energy and and all of the goodness? It was funny, kind of quick side note. I just took my son to get fitted, he's 24, fitted for a tuxedo because he is going to his first like friend's wedding where they require him to dress up. And the kid that was helping us, he was so fantastic, and he was kind of drain drained and little, and and he was like, Oh, here comes Nick. And I and I was like, Okay, and he goes, Nick's our vibes guy, like he's he's the one that raises the vibes in here, and I just I thought of you. Um because we talk about vibes, my guys, but it's important when you know we're going through our career, we're going through life to have those vibes people, the people that lift us up and celebrate us and get us in a good place. So that's one. Another one is keeping an evidence list. And I tell people all the time we should be doing this all the time. This is keeping track of our wins, our positive feedback, the things that we have overcome. Because really, we get so busy going, going, going, going, going that we don't pause to reflect on the goodness, we don't pause to think about everything wonderful. And when we get that fixed mindset, our brain just keeps being like, see, we messed that up here, here, here. But it's those that evidence list. It's we can do hard things, we can be successful, we have the credentials, and I think that evidence list, I think sometimes people feel like, well, I should be doing this, or that's part of my job. And so they dismiss accomplishments quickly, but really it allows us to think about all the things we've earned and that we've worked through. So I think it's wildly important.

Rhonda Jolyean 10:31

I agree and I love it because when I talk about visually seeing your goals or visually seeing what you want to go toward, we achieve our goals 40% more if we see it visually because of what our eyes and are connected to our brain and what we will repeat in our mind and then we'll go after it. And I think the same is true for the evidence of what we've accomplished. So if our brains are grown into negativity bias, but then we have all these accomplishments around us visually written out or in a journal, or for me, I literally have to have a piece of paper that I can hang up at certain times in a private place. I don't have it around my house, you know, a bragboard or anything. But maybe you do and your cubicle or in your office have a bragboard of things that you have accomplished that will help keep you motivated and that you'll be 40% more likely to keep going after it. And that will help combat that negativity bias. It's not about other people seeing it, it's about your brain. Because again, our brain is not here to help us thrive, our brain is here to help us survive.

Dr. Katie 11:57

Absolutely, absolutely. And I that leads us to my next strategy that I talk to people about is stop comparing your beginning to someone else's polished middle. And really what that means is as we're learning, we're growing. I hate the fake it till you make it. To me, it is learn it while you earn it. We talked about that last week. And it's so easy when we look at someone's, and it maybe it may not even be someone's polished middle, it may be just someone's polished social media or you know, seeing the outcomes without seeing the struggles. We all have to work really hard to get there. And really what people see publicly and what leadership growth actually looks like is so so wildly different. And I think we could preach this until we are out of oxygen, but people will still only be there are people out there that will only post the shiny, perfect, non-messy parts of a very, very messy journey. And so we've got to stop looking at that and comparing ourselves.

Rhonda Jolyean 13:06

Well, and like I said last time, the part of our brain in which we have comparison is the exact same part where we feel loss and we feel grief, and so it is we are prone to feel sadness when we have that comparison. And comparison is a thief of joy. So I absolutely agree with that.

Dr. Katie 13:28

Yeah, yeah. I have two more. One other one is focus on service instead of performance. And this is Carol Dweck talks about this in mindset, is when we focus on our journey and our path and how we get there, as opposed to the end shiny result or the the accolades, or you know, the the tangible, like here's my grade, or here's my reward, or here's my whatever. It's it takes away from the path that we're on, and and being able to ask ourselves, you know, how can I help? And do I belong here? And really paying attention to our impact over image. So many people are worried about how people see them as opposed to how we make people feel. And I think we really got to think about that because really our confidence grows as a leader when we are helping people, when we're supporting people, when we're seeing them grow, is when we continue to get better. So I think we've got to really focus on the service over the performance.

Rhonda Jolyean 14:36

Agreed.

Dr. Katie 14:37

So and then my last strategy is asking questions instead of pretending. It goes back to the stop faking it till you make it, but it's really asking those questions. We've talked about this many times, but many, especially old school people, think that asking questions or admitting weakness, asking questions or saying we don't know is admitting weakness, where it's really not. Curiosity is actually a leadership strength. And I know you're gonna talk a lot about some of that, but really psychological safety really starts when the leaders model learning. And really, the strongest leaders in the rooms are usually the ones that are willing to ask the most questions and not be the smartest person in the room, and that really helps with confidence in combating the feelings of imposter syndrome.

Rhonda Jolyean 15:29

Absolutely. You have to model that leadership. I believe that. Yeah, and as you said, curiosity is a leadership quality that more people need to have. And in doing that, we have to be more vulnerable to be able to have that psychological safety. And not only for our teams and for the culture in which we are trying to set up for our teams, but also for ourselves. And we've talked about this a lot when it comes to creative practices. But when you have imposter syndrome, a lot of it comes from growing

Regulate Your Nervous System With Creativity

Rhonda Jolyean 16:10

and stretching that comparison that you spoke about. And a huge part of how we can manage it is our nervous system regulation. So we know and we discuss a lot about how much information we have coming at us, whether it's the comparison information, just information that we have to learn, negative, positive, whatever it is, we are just not made for all of this overwhelming information. And so our systems are overloaded. So to be able to have a way in which feels authentic to you to get nervous system, your nervous system regulation, it is core to being able to have that growth mindset and to be able to manage imposter syndrome. So whether that is meditation for you, whether that is what I call aesthetic engagement. So just doodling, playing, having that hand mind connection, which might be playing with play-doh or playing with your favorite toy from when you were a kid, or Lego, or even just listening to your favorite playlist, anything that brings you joy through aesthetics, that is a way to calm down your nervous system and reconnect to your body and have that more, your brain connected more to your body than your nervous system trying to connect to everything external. That will help you manage it. And another way is to literally engage in creativity practices. So, again, this doesn't mean you have to be a painter, you don't have to make great works of art. This weekend, I went to an awesome free painting class at our public library. That is what I want to do. But for people who have really high-demanding jobs, maybe it's as simple as playing a new AI game that is creative that you've come up with. It could be taking a walk and picking out different colors. I know right now in Japan, a big thing is taking a color walk. So they take photos and then lay them out to say, here's all the red things that I found. Here's all of the orange things that I found. So just finding patterns. A lot of people, especially neurodivergent people, love to find patterns and things. So maybe that's how you want to have a creative practice. This can look any way for you that you want. And then of course, it truly is for most people a way to get out a lot of emotions and to regulate journaling and reflection is highly valuable. And for a lot of leaders, this is a way to look back. I mean, you've said it yourself on great accomplishments, to look back and say, what did my team do? What were we facing challenges, etc.? And that can be a way to get out some of the comparison theory, some of the negativity bias, and then hopefully get back into what Carol DeWack wants us to, which is that growth mindset, and understand, okay, well, this in I might be in my imposter syndrome, but at the same time, it's because I'm stretching myself. It's because I'm leaning towards something that has never been done before, etc. Yeah. So another thing that I like to do is really know that I deserve fun and I deserve pleasure. So whether that be uh taking a Friday, a summer Friday off and going to do something in my community, like going to the zoo. When's the last time you went to the zoo? And maybe you don't take your kids. Maybe you go with friends, maybe you go with a team, you go on a date, maybe you go to a museum in your town, maybe you eat a meal at a really nice restaurant that you've not been to and you enjoy it. You don't have a business meeting, those types of things. If that's something that you find pleasurable, it's really all of these things are coming back to having ourselves be more in our bodies and regulate and saying to our brains, we're not going to be negative towards these experiences. We are going to understand that to grow is to become more human. And this is something that I want to do. And then, of course, you hit the nail on the head when you talked about having a list of experiences and accomplishments or meaningful events that you have overcome. Having environmental cues of these things that bring you confidence is one of the number one ways that can help us overcome imposter syndrome. Our brains are terrible at remembering what we have done great in the past. We, of course, we've talked about this before. Even though, Katie, you are an amazing accomplished speaker. You, when I ask you about speaking, I know that you don't automatically go towards your favorite speeches. Your brain goes back to that tiny negative voice that that person said to you, that one negative comment a long time ago that you've told me about and you've talked about on the podcast. And it's because that negativity bias. Yep. So that having those huge, meaningful events around you and around your team. Oh man, that's a great exercise, too, is having maybe. A team bragboard, you know, in an environment, you know, writing it up, things that we've accomplished this week. When things are getting hard, you look up there and you can visually see that it works, it works wonders. And if you think about, you know, why people write kids' names on, I mean, in my day it was a chalkboard or a dry erase board in school. But why we write kids' names up on the board to say, hey, we did a good job this week in school. It's because it matters. People like to see those visual cues. So all of these things can help us to reduce that overwhelm and can really remind our bodies and our brains that we are growing and we are becoming more human.

Dr. Katie 22:46

Yeah. Oh, I love, I love all of that. And you know, as you were talking, it's it's I love to cook. And so thinking from creativity, like I love to cook and I love to cook from recipes, but also like shout out to our Germany people. I make the best schnitzel I learned. I learned from a German nanny when my dad was stationed in Germany for the army, and I can make a killer schnitzel. But people will always be like, What's your recipe? And I'm like, at this point, it's like, oh, I have no recipe. I've made it so much that I just go off on my my own, and it gives me great joy. And not to cook for just Rob and I, like on a Tuesday night, but to cook for 20 people brings me so much joy. Where I know some people that would stress them out. Oh, I I love it. So yeah, I think that's all good.

Rhonda Jolyean 23:43

Yeah, I'm the person that would stress out. But that's the that's the beauty of it. Everybody has something different. So I'm glad you brought that up because I I never go to the cooking analogies, but I'm glad that you did. So yeah, yeah.

Dr. Katie 23:57

Well, and as you were talking too, it it made me think, you know, and we're gonna kind of end on this conversation of, you know, as leaders, what do we really need to understand about our team? And when it comes to imposter syndrome, many of our employees will look disengaged, but they're actually insecure. They may have a fear of sounding stupid or a fear of failure or visibility, or they may be introverts. There's so much to that, and I think

Belonging Psychological Safety And Feedback

Dr. Katie 24:30

it's so important as leaders. I always tell people the hardest thing, the best thing about being a leader, the absolute best thing about being a leader is you get to lead people. But the hardest thing that you have to do as a leader is lead people. And you have to lead them in the way they want to be led. And so when I think about imposter syndrome, I think about so many leaders that I've worked with that come across wildly confident and wildly like it discernment is is high for them. So they are they sound like this is how we're gonna do it, period. But really, not everyone wants to be led that way. And as leaders, we've got to figure out what our people need and create a safe environment for them to feel their feelings and to feel safe speaking up.

Rhonda Jolyean 25:21

Exactly. And I think just again, we talk about it a lot that humans are so hard and everyone is different, and that's why they are hard. And so having those hard, authentic conversations is it sounds so easy and it's so difficult. And we just have to remember how we would want to what we would have wanted to been asked when we were in our team's position, or how we would want to have what we would want our leaders to know if we were in that spot.

Dr. Katie 26:00

Yeah, yeah, I agree, I agree. Well, and another thing to to help your team with confidence or imposter syndrome is really the idea of belonging, because it really impacts innovation and contribution. And I part so part of leaders, the A in leaders is acceptance. And I again had the coolest conversation with my son as we were going to get his tuxedo today, because we were just talking about generational differences, and and he is a 24-year-old young white man who grew up with theoretically really wild privilege. Like both of his parents have graduate degrees and just love him blissfully and hold him accountable when he makes mistakes. But we are having a really cool conversation around acceptance. And and he he shared with me, like his generation, some of the young white men are really struggling with having their own voice because what they're told is hush up, you've got enough privilege. Like you don't get to have an opinion on this. And I know we could do a whole episode. I would actually, I don't think he would ever come on, but it'd be really fun to have the conversation with him. But I mean, I was just like, you're so right. And whether it's young white men or, you know, no matter your background, insert label here, you've been told, you know, your voice is not good enough or it's not strong enough, or you should not feel that, which feeds into the imposter syndrome, which feeds into belonging. Like, do I belong here? Does my voice matter? Should I say anything? What should I do? And and when you're constantly fighting that, you just start going along to get along, and then you don't have an opinion on anything.

Rhonda Jolyean 27:43

Yeah, that's a really good point, I think. To this entire conversation, which is a longer conversation and we can't do it justice here, but with imposter syndrome, we are two white privileged women of a certain age, and that needs to be addressed. And I'm really glad that you brought that up because we have that viewpoint in the world, and so we do not and will never have the viewpoint and the stories and the you know, the journey of somebody with a with different colored skin, with different abilities, of a different age, etc. And so in this time, and I think that that is hugely important because we are each told different things at different times. And so in different situations, people are going to feel different aspects of imposter syndrome. And there are certain aspects of people saying you don't belong. And sometimes it's not imposter syndrome, sometimes it is blatant racism, or it is blatant not welcoming and you don't belong, etc. And I think here we are having a conversation in the intersection in which you and I live and have lived, and of just the imposter syndrome of those situations. So thank you for bringing that up because that is important.

Dr. Katie 29:19

Yeah, yeah. It was such a neat conversation. It that's the cool part when my kids are home because we never intend to have these conversations and then they go, and then I learn so much. But it's it's truly like our brain is trying to keep us alive, not happy. So it's like, oh, don't say that because you can't say that anymore, or don't do that because you've been told you shouldn't do that, or or that. And so, as leaders, we really got to create this environment of belonging and acceptance, and not so people feel like they have to fit in or pretend to be someone they're not. We really gotta do that, and with that, we got to create a feedback culture. We've got to create an environment where employees feel like they can give feedback and ask for feedback. Employees need coaching, not just correction. Feedback shouldn't just happen when things go wrong. Confidence really grows when we have these development conversations, and it makes me sad when employees don't get that. I one of my bosses many years ago, she was not an agenda person, I'm an agenda person, and so I would create our agenda for our one-on-one. And the last 10 minutes of the agenda was always my professional development because the transactional stuff is great, but really it's that forward-thinking growth mindset. How am I growing? What am I doing? That's really gonna help build that confidence, right?

Rhonda Jolyean 30:45

And that's good for you taking that on because honestly, your career matters more to you than most people, yeah. Unfortunately, that's all right, that's a whole other podcast. However, I do appreciate you again bringing all of this up. And I think for leaders to be open-minded, open-hearted too, with that feedback loop. If you make a mistake and someone brings that to your attention, be open to that. Apologize quickly, and then ask how you can do better the next time. We're not saying all these things to have people walk on pins and needles. It's that we have to have tough conversations, but you have to be open-minded and open-hearted to help people belong. Because again, humans are hard. The human experience is difficult.

Dr. Katie 31:40

So yeah, yeah. It it it is. And then and we can't do any of this by accident. Like we have to do intentional work, like we have to pay attention to how as leaders we're behaving and impacting others. It goes to we've talked about emotional intelligence and you know, our own self-awareness. And I found this quote, I love this quote. Confidence confident employees are not created through pressure, they're created through support, growth, and psychological safety.

Rhonda Jolyean 32:14

Yes, yes, yes.

Dr. Katie 32:16

But sometimes we think if we just push harder, if we just yell louder, if we just put more pressure, if we just add more things, people are gonna get it. And and no matter your age, no matter your background, it just isn't gonna work that way. So exactly. So we love to give homework. I've got some reflection questions for listeners to listen to or to think about, but also to like reach out to us. Tell us what tell us some of the nuggets that you come up with. I love that. So here's a couple questions I want you all to reflect on. So when do you feel imposter syndrome the most? What is one thing you do to push through it? What advice would you give your younger self?

Reflection Questions To Build Confidence

Dr. Katie 33:00

What leadership behaviors help people feel more confident? What is the difference between confidence and arrogance? And then the last thing is what is one thing leaders misunderstand about confidence? So I want you all to think about that because sometimes we look at a very confident person and we think it's something else. So, some reflection questions for you all to do a little homework.

Rhonda Jolyean 33:27

I like it.

Dr. Katie 33:29

So well, and as we talked about, the goal is not to eliminate imposter syndrome. I love how you talk about it because it really is tied to growth mindset. It really is how we continue to grow, how we continue to get to that next level. So, really, what we're we really want you to pay attention to is when you're feeling in the moment, when you're feeling that, how do we not let it stop us or slow it down? Let's let's keep fighting through it and and get past it. 100%. Yay! Such good stuff. Um, so why don't you tell everybody how they can help the podcast? And I'm gonna pull up our new locations.

Rhonda Jolyean 34:09

Yeah, so we get asked a lot by friends and supporters how you all can help. And we appreciate everyone's support. We would love it if you could just give us ratings. If you want to give us a five-star on Apple Music or Spotify, downloading our podcast, you can just follow the show if you don't have time to listen. That's okay. Just even following us helps out. And if you do want to leave us a review, uh just like high five or

How You Can Support The Show

Rhonda Jolyean 34:45

little emojis or really give us feedback, that would help. I mean, feedback, I I hate the term feedback is a gift. I know Katie likes it. I love it. It is a gift. I I have a little, I have a just trauma with it in the past, but I do like feedback. I think feedback is important. So I will say, I like feedback. Please give us give us feedback. And that can even be shooting us a DM on the podcast, emailing Katie or I or connecting with us on LinkedIn, just even connecting with us on LinkedIn, saying, hi, listener of the pod. We would love that. Love that. So just we love our supporters, and we cannot thank you enough for everything you do.

Dr. Katie 35:31

Yeah, yeah. It is such a it we are so appreciative for people listening. And I and I love both you and I have this where people are like, oh, I listened, and and I thought of this and I thought of that. Friends, if you have our cell phones, text us, tell us the topic you want to hear. Uh, if you don't have our cell phones, we're not giving it to you. We love you, but you can respond, you can respond on Apple. If you listen on Apple Podcasts, you can email the show. But as Rhonda said, there's many, many ways to get a hold of us. So some fun new locations this past week. One of them is Los Angeles, California. So if this is my daughter's boyfriend's mother, hi girl. Um they're from the Los Angeles area, and I think I

New Listener Locations And What Is Next

Dr. Katie 36:20

mentioned she's fantastic. We just met her recently. Helsinki in Finland is a new one. And I think Portland, Oregon, it's not necessarily a new one, but I think they went through maybe someone either went through the catalog and downloaded everything, or they shared it with all of their friends in Portland. So whoever you are in Portland that found the show, thank you for listening.

Rhonda Jolyean 36:43

Yay! I have I have a couple friends out there, so maybe I'll I'll see if that was them.

Dr. Katie 36:50

Yeah, yeah. So so good. And I know some people who listened to the episode with Jason, and I had mentioned that Rob was getting his board done. I have Rob's board, I have my complete board, and so when we record in two weeks, Rob and I will have had a date night where we are doing a Teams meeting with Jason, and he's gonna read our our stuff individually and as a couple. So I cannot wait to share that with everyone. I know some people who listen are really interested in that.

Rhonda Jolyean 37:21

That's so fun. Yeah, we'll have to do like a little just little debrief on that. So yeah, yeah. And speaking of that, we are gonna start a new series in the next couple of weeks, and so that will be about the stories that we tell ourselves, which I know a lot of people have been looking forward to, and especially people who get inside their heads a lot, which I think are all of us. We are gonna go through different things that we've gone through in our lives, the history and the psychology of why we tell ourselves things, how we can manage that. It's not gonna be from a, we're not counselors, uh, we're not psychologists, but we're gonna talk about it from a leadership perspective and how we can manage ourselves and our teams better and how we can continue to have that growth mindset as we learn more about ourselves and the stories that we keep in our heads.

Dr. Katie 38:28

So yeah. Oh, I can't wait for that one. That is gonna be a fun series. So yeah. All right, everyone. Well, thank you for joining us on this week's path to leadership, and we'll talk to you next time. Bye, everyone. Bye.