What If Rest Were A Leadership Skill

Your calendar might look full, but your brain might be emptier than you realise. When every “day off” becomes laundry, errands, email catch-up, and prep for Monday, we never truly power down and it shows up everywhere: short patience, fuzzy thinking, reactive leadership, and that feeling of being too tired to make one more decision.

We dig into the “French Sunday” concept, the idea of protecting time for rest, pleasure, and connection, and why it can be a legitimate leadership skill. We talk burnout prevention through a neuroscience lens: decision fatigue, dopamine dips, chronic stress, and how emotional regulation gets harder when you stay always on. We also explore third spaces and novelty, why leaving the house and being in community can shift your energy, and why slowness often unlocks creativity and better problem-solving.

Stillness is not one-size-fits-all, so we share options that work for different nervous systems, including alternatives to meditation and small ways to reduce sensory overload. From a leadership perspective, we get practical about boundaries that build psychological safety: modelling recovery, avoiding after-hours emails, and using delayed send so you can rest without creating urgency for your team.

We end with simple homework: carve out a non-negotiable rest window and remove one “setup day” habit from it, then notice how your mindset and leadership presence change. If this resonates, subscribe, share with a friend who needs a reset, and leave a review with the “French Sunday” habit you’re trying next.

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Transcript

Dr. Katie 0:32

Hi everyone. Welcome back to the path to leadership. I'm Dr. Katie.

Rhonda Jolyean 0:36

And I'm Rhonda Jolene.

Dr. Katie 0:38

We're so thrilled to have you. So much going on. How are you doing, Rhonda?

Rhonda Jolyean 0:44

I'm good. I we were talking beforehand and I know we're both a little tired. And this is we have a perfect episode, I think, for that talking about being a little tired.

Moodsters And Emotional Support At Work

Dr. Katie 0:56

We do. We do. And before we jump into this, I did not tell you I was going to bring it up, but it just made me think as I had to take a big old yawn. In the show notes, we have a link to your Etsy shop. And you all just came out. I haven't said anything to you about this. The cutest little I've got to have the whole set of the little personality. Tell me about that.

Rhonda Jolyean 1:18

Oh god, so sweet. Well, okay. So if everybody you're the best supporter ever. The if people don't know, my husband and I run a 3D printing shop and we do it for joy and for function and fun. And I have been noticing, obviously, through this podcast and through the work that I do and through KD, that we need a lot of emotional support lately in life. And we've had runs of some emotional support things that we have printed before. And we decided to design some moodsters. These are emotional support monsters that we, you know, we all know them. We all love them and we put up with them at work. So these are little desk figurines, if you will. They're super light, they're super fun to move around. They actually are functional. They can hold your wires for your laptop and SDD cards and all of these things, but people are loving them because I gave them personalities. There's a smirky one that's called smirk, a one that looks like he's about to fall asleep or go nuts, and his name is Haze. There's one called Meh, and he's got a case the Mondays perpetually. And there's one, the one that everybody loves. His name is Kyle. And if you've ever seen inside out movies, the angry emotion, that is Kyle. And we all know Kyle at work. He is the guy that says, Hey, this meeting could have been an email. So uh we have had the most orders of Kyle for sure.

Dr. Katie 3:07

So yeah, yeah.

Rhonda Jolyean 3:08

So I know I don't have my my guys with me actually right now, but we are shipping a lot today. So thanks everybody for your support. And thank you for your support. That's so nice. I'm actually, I need to come up with one. Somebody suggested one for like the weekend. Like I'm perpetually ready for the weekend. So be looking out for that.

Dr. Katie 3:26

Oh, yeah, like a sunshiny, like here we go, kind of. Yeah. Oh I know. I loved Kyle. I can see why everyone loved Kyle, but it's so funny the meh one because the meh really goes into what we're gonna talk about today, which was a concept you introduced to me that I'd never heard before.

What A French Sunday Means

Rhonda Jolyean 3:48

Yeah, well, and meh is green, and that is your signature color. So yeah, yeah. I was talking with a friend. Shout out to Kate, who is an avid listener of ours, and we were having coffee, and she knows that France is my favorite country in the entire world. Shout out to those listeners. We have a few of you. We do. And we have seen a lot lately on social media the memes of the French Sunday. And she asked, Have you heard about this? And I said, Well, I used to live in France, so I know what French people do on Sunday. Is that what you're talking about? And she said, No, it's the idea that we should all do what French people do on a Sunday, which is absolutely rest and do nothing but connect with friends, go to cafes, have croissants and coffee and enjoy ourselves and do all things pleasurable. Because as a Western society, we have absolutely taken over Sundays as just another work day. And really, it's not just Sundays, it's a it's applicable to all weekend days or any time off. If you think about it, you know, my weekend and most people's weekends are let's get laundry done, let's get the shopping done. I got a meal prep. We've talked about you and how you meal prep on AI every weekend. There's always that's catch up day, but it's not catch up on rest. It's catch up on maybe answering emails, doing stuff for the kids' school, you know, it's kind of become just another precursor workday to Monday. And no kidding, we're met or when we get into the office on Monday, it's a bit of a haze, you know. Yeah. So that is something that I mentioned to you as did you hear about this? Because, you know, I talk about taking many renaissances throughout our weeks and how that's doable. And I think this is another great way of thinking about it, about how we really need to go back to embracing the idea of a French Sunday and what that could mean to us and how really, truly it could be a skill in our leadership toolboxes and how that could trickle down to our teams as something that could better our mental health and also our productivity.

Dr. Katie 6:25

Yeah. Yeah. And I think it's when I was doing the research on it and reading about it, it's like, you know, the beauty is it doesn't have to be Sunday. Like the concept is not that it's okay, Sunday, but but I love the concept where it's truly that being intentional, not having that productivity pressure. Like I know, and I'm in a fortunate spot now with a 22 and 24-year-old. But you know, I know when the kids were little, it was we're constantly running between their things, we're checking things off the list. Rob's running through the yard. Like, there's some people out there that get such joy from cutting the grass. They just love to be outside and pushing the mower. But I know there was a period in our family where you know, Rob's just trying to run and get the garage or get the get it mowed before the sun goes down, you know. So it was just task after task. And whether you have kids or not, it's you know, we just have this checklist of personal stuff that we've put on ourselves too, that we don't just stop for a second and and uh do that intentional rest that we need to do.

Burnout Biology And Decision Fatigue

Rhonda Jolyean 7:33

And then you, if you have bogarded the Sunday or even Saturday, Sunday, or your time after work as work days, your brain never gets a chance to catch up. And so then you're constantly on. And like we were talking about in our last episode, the art of saying no, our prefrontal cortex can then have a lack of dopamine, which then, if we're constantly stressed or chronically stressed, that leads to that hypocortisolism, which then leads to burnout, lack of joy, etc. And no wonder so many people have been clinically burnt out, clinically depressed, have been leaving their jobs and they know it, they know it in their bodies that they feel something is off. But it's not only when they're at work. If you have a to-do list every day, and most Americans I think do, whether they write it down or jot it in an app or not, we have a going list in our head. And I think embracing an idea, whether you call it French Sunday or not, whether you say, I'm gonna have a day. My grandpa used to go fishing. Even if he wasn't fishing, he used to go fishing in his mind, you know, it was called whatever. You just need time for stillness and to clear your mind and to really rejuvenate, whatever that means to you.

Dr. Katie 9:03

Yeah, yeah, I agree. And it's so fascinating because you know, you think about burnout, but I mean, just when we're exhausted, you know, there's times where it's like, what do you want for dinner? And it's like, I have no, I don't want to make another decision today, right? I don't wanna, I don't, I don't want to do anything else. And so that decision making, and I was having lunch with a client today. We had a meeting, then we went and grabbed lunch, and we were just kind of talking about this restaurant, and I told him that I had door dash from the restaurant, and it's so much better in person than DoorDashing. And I'm like, I wish I didn't know DoorDash ever existed because it's for me, it's so convenient, but it's also so lazy. But when I don't want to make a decision, when I'm exhausted, when I don't do the meal prep that I'm supposed to, it it just I can, oh okay, I'll just door dash something, or I'll just, you know, grab something and it just is so so true. When we're overscheduled, when we're we're stretched too too far, then we're just we we lose our our decision making, our patience, and just even our emotional regulation, right? We're just like, leave me alone. I don't want to deal with you.

Third Spaces And Novelty Dopamine

Rhonda Jolyean 10:16

And then that goes into whatever spaces we work in or coexist in, and that can obviously our energies melt into other people, and you know, you feel it from your leaders or your peers. If you have a Kyle around, then you know, that definitely you then you can become kind of a Kyle too. So yeah, I mean, it's uh you speaking about DoorDash makes me want to get some DoorDash. I see, it's so easy. You it's that pure influence. And I as you were talking about DoorDash, I thought, you know, it's so much easier to get DoorDash than even to go out to a restaurant, like we used to. And those are third spaces, you know. And we haven't talked much about third spaces on our podcast. However, though the act of getting dressed, going to somewhere, being in community with even strangers, that's something that is different for your brain. It does something different. We know from neuroscience that doing novel things will help boost that dopamine. And if you're just sitting on your couch like you do every night, getting DoorDash, that's not novel enough to have that dopamine hit. Yeah, maybe eating fried food that tastes real good is, but it only is for a second and then it brings down your body, you know. And listen, I'm talking to myself as much as I am anybody else.

Dr. Katie 11:48

Right now, right. So well, and when you know, it's so interesting because the French Sunday talking about going to cafes and being with your friends. And I was talking to a young woman recent. Oh, it was it was she I was getting my hair done, and so we were talking about, and I after this comes out, but while we're recording, I'm going to a Kentucky Derby fundraiser this weekend, and I'm so excited. I love a good hat. I wish we had a culture where everyone wears fun hats all the time. And we were talking about that. I know, I know. I don't have the self-confidence. I need the I need the style and confidence to do it, but but just she was talking about like even going out with her friends, she wants to wear a cute little dress, and and you know, if she shows up anything other than a jeans and t-shirt, people are like, What are you doing? Why are you so fancy? And I think about this French Sunday concept and like you know, getting dressed and going and enjoying and not being in a rush, and not like as soon as you set your fork down, here's the bill and you pay and you run out, but really that's true. Like, enjoy the moment, have a glass of wine if you drink, and if not, I love a good iced tea, like just breathe.

Learning Stillness Without Shame

Rhonda Jolyean 13:02

Oh my gosh. And if you're lucky enough to have been able to go to France and actually enjoy a French Sunday, you know the feeling, or anywhere really, where you have been in a culture that embraces slowness, where you sit down and they aren't rushing you, like you said, you can drink and you feel the energy around you, and yet it's not the nervous energy that we have a lot here in the United States. And I feel like the people, our listeners in Europe and around the world who listen to us, if you've been to the United States, you'll understand the differences of the energy in a flip-floppy way, in a backwards way. And I mean, I just every time that I'm fortunate enough to get to go to Europe or to South America and feel the difference, your whole body melts and it just clears your mind. And you walk, I even walk differently because I my body just feels it's that prefrontal cortex that I talk about that the decision making relaxes, which then lets new, you know, pathways in my brain connect and your brain, all of our brains connect. And then that is what is going to give us new and fresh ideas. It gives us creative ideas, it gives us connections to be able to bring to our family life and our work life. And if we don't have time, if we don't get time for that, then you know, again, if you're burnt out, you're not gonna be as productive. And so this is why leaders should care about this. This is why corporations should care about this, because we want the most creative people. And again, I'm not talking artists, I'm talking everyone is creative and innovative because it does affect your bottom line.

Dr. Katie 15:08

Yeah.

Rhonda Jolyean 15:09

So yeah.

Dr. Katie 15:10

Well, and as you were talking, I'm just wondering. I mean, I know there was a time in my life where I didn't know how to relax, I didn't know how to sit in stillness, I didn't know, I didn't know how to be by myself. And what's so interesting is when I first graduated my undergrad and I went to Indiana State, I didn't know anyone. Like I lived in this town, I didn't know anyone, and I got really comfortable being by myself. Like I would go to a restaurant and take a book and just, you know, sit and be by myself. And like not a quickie, but like I would go to a fancy restaurant and just sit and enjoy. And wow, I think people forget what it's like to just sit in quiet and stillness. And and I tell people all the time when I'm doing leadership sessions, I'm like, it's okay. I don't mind, I don't mind quietness. I'll just let you all think through it. And inevitably, someone has to fill the quiet spot because we don't know how to sit in that that space that that really creativity comes when we have calm, when we have process, when we we allow that stillness. People are so afraid of that now, I think.

Rhonda Jolyean 16:21

Yeah, yes, and I will put a because we've talked about this before, I will put a little caveat on that. That if if you can get to a place where, and I applaud you because I still can't eat by myself, that is something that I just don't like doing. I mean, if I'm at home, sure, just not out in public. But if if you can get to a spot where you can be still eat by yourself, read, I mean, reading I think is easier than most things. If you can color, do coloring books without music or chores without podcasts, that's great. As I've learned more about neuroscience, learn more about myself, and specifically learn more about neurodiversity and neuro specific needs of people across the spectrum. I think it's very because if if people haven't heard my story, you know, I used to think that I was a failure when I couldn't do meditation because I'm like, I freaking hate meditation. And I just I because I'm that person in meditation that is like, what why can I not stop thinking about other things? And then I like make up these stories and all of this. And then I became even more anxious, and then my body felt even more unstable. And so I always caveat with if you can be still, that is great, or find that time. A lot of us just need to set aside the time to be still, and then if you can't, and you can at least do something with your hands. So for me, that is coloring and maybe listening to music and then getting to a spot where I can just color. Or it's, you know, for people that I know with ADHD, it's just walking with a podcast and not your, you know, your phone. Maybe it's leaving your phone and just taking your watch, or you know, it's kind of pulling back some layers that we have and uh not having as much sensorial stimuli. I think that's really important for people to know that it's not just about that stillness, but if you can get there, I just want people to know that there's a lot of options for that.

Dr. Katie 18:58

Yeah. I think you're right. And I think what you know, when we talk about this concept, there's no easy button. Like we're not gonna just be able to flip it and our culture has created this environment, our behaviors have created our habits, and so you know, it is going to take practice. And it's funny with meditation because I enjoy it, but I struggle with it as well. And and what I love about Headspace, uh the one the app that I use is it's like it's okay, just reset. It's okay, just bring yourself back. It's it's okay. And I think we need that reassurance that you know, even if we start trying these behaviors in small doses, yeah, it can add it add value. It's it's funny because I was practicing French Sunday before I even knew it was a thing. Because on Sundays, I do not like to get out of my PJs. Like, sorry, men who are listening, but it's true. Like the thought of putting on a bra on Sunday, no, it's gotta be a special occasion. Now I do because I play golf on Sundays, but I I just like to like sit and marinate and just like numb and not have to do all the stuff. And it's funny because my husband does the laundry and he would do laundry on Sunday, and now he does it on Tuesday, so we can kind of have just Sunday for us. So we do errands and stuff on Saturday, and then Sunday is just kind of us catching up, just being together, and then we play golf and have dinner. And so we were doing French Sunday before we knew it was French Sunday, right? But it's really great for us and our time and doing stuff we enjoy together, right?

Leadership Boundaries People Can Trust

Rhonda Jolyean 20:42

And well, I love that, and I also think that you doing golf during the season that you love it is kind of like my grandpa going fishing. That is for you a very much a reset. You're not doing it because you are quote unquote working, you're not doing it because you have to. That is your refreshment, that's your renewal. I think that's super important. And I also think it's important, like we said earlier in the podcast, that if you have things on Sundays, I mean, listen, you said it. There's I know people who have kids under the age of 18, and they Sundays are sports days. Sundays, Saturdays, Fridays, you know, all of it. But maybe there is a Tuesday night where you can take a couple of hours and instead of doing the chores, maybe you can delegate some of it and take time for yourself to yeah, read a book, get in a bath, something, take a walk just for you, not because it's for you're running half marathon or something. I think that it that's super important. And there's seasons in life. There's seasons like you said, you are now able to do that when you know 10 years 10 years ago you weren't. So we're not telling people they have to take a whole day to do this, just be more cognizant. And also it totally goes back to the values. If your values is to, you know, being healthy and moving your body is super important for you for renewal, then yeah, golf and go for that walk and etc. For me, it's really around that arts engagement. I have to be aesthetically engaged, or else I know. My body won't feel as stable and then I won't have as much of a dopamine hit. And I can feel it. I totally feel it. And my therapist even checks me on it. And I always go back to that. So, you know, I've taken up oil crayons lately and stickers, as you and I have freaked out about. We have, I mean, that's a whole different podcast. I can't do it here. But that's, you know, things that I'm obsessed with right now. And that always give me dopamine hits. And it's something that totally takes me out of the day-to-day anxiety and burnout and to-do list.

Dr. Katie 23:08

Yeah. Yeah. And it's interesting because as we're talking about this and you think about, okay, this is a leadership podcast, right? It's the path to leadership. And and you know, okay, so what, Katie? But it's, I mean, it really does have that business impact. It really, really is that because it's it's that always on culture, it's that always available culture. And and you were sharing with me that one of your friends listened to the last podcast and was like, okay, I love that. Now do the next podcast. And so we're actually talking about doing a little series to that, but it's being okay with boundaries, it's being okay with, you know, not saying yes to everyone and everything. And, you know, from a work standpoint, we can preach balance or moderation or whatever all the time. And I always chuckle when someone has the signature line that says, my normal business hours are blah, blah, blah. But I think there's a great boundary in that, right? Like, don't expect me to respond to you at 7 p.m. p.m. Don't expect me to to hop to it. And as leaders, when we send those emails on Sundays, when we tell people how busy we are, when we never unplug, when we're on vacation working, we're we're modeling the behavior that that's what we expect for our people, even if we tell them the opposite. They're going to think that they have to do it.

Rhonda Jolyean 24:36

Mm-hmm. And that you lose that trust that we've talked about, in you know, people will have a little bit more weariness about what you do versus what you say. And again, it goes back to the bottom line. So if you are acting in a French Sunday type of mindset in some capacities, by not sending the emails after 6 p.m. when you say that you're not going to, or taking mental health days when you need to, then people are going to mimic that. They're going to have more psychological trust and safety. And then they are going to inevitably be more creative, more innovative, and thus more productive. Plus, they're going to have more trust and they're going to probably stay around longer, which we know has been an issue in the last 20 years with people leaving at higher rates.

Dr. Katie 25:37

Yeah. Yeah. And it's interesting. So many things are clicking for me because one of the leaders I talked to today, because I asked him, what does success look like for you and your role? And one of the things he said was, I want time to be able to sit and be innovative. And what I'm now in our conversation, like this aha, was he needs a moment. He needs some time to sit in stillness. He needs some time to be able to digest and to really marinate on things instead of this just go, go, go, reactive, reactive, reactive. It's, you know, how do we recover? How do we calm? And there they work in finance. And he was like, you know, we're closing a month and then we're closing another month and we're closing, and we never have this time to pause, reflect, work, you know, what what do we do? And I just think from the workplace, if we're just constantly reactive or we're constantly going, going, going, if we don't have even these French Sundays at work, it's kind of, you know, where it's we're doing this intentional reset, we're never going to see what we're missing. Yes, exactly.

Rhonda Jolyean 26:51

And I have to think back a little bit, but it was nine or 10 years ago at my last corporate uh position. I started suggesting and then we implemented two C-suite members of huge hospital systems, bringing them in and having them do intentional brainstorming work at first, giving them time, literally giving them one full hour as a as teams and saying we're consultants, but and yet we're gonna give you the brainstorming work, letting us facilitate that for you. And because how often do we give ourselves this time in personal or professional life? At first, it was super awkward because they were not used to it. This was 10 years ago. We weren't talking all this innovation and everything. And they resisted it a little bit, but by the end of each session, they loved it and they would take it back to their hospital systems. You know, it it increased trust with our partnerships. It people, we again we talk about this on almost every podcast. We are human beings, and you do not stop being a human being when you become leaders or when you have a higher position. Just like we need rest at home, we need rest, reset, reflection at work. I love the idea of having a French Sunday mindset. You can call it something else on your teams. You can come up with fun names, if you will. I mean, again, like my grandpa used to call it gone fishing, you know. I love a way to get a way to step out from my grandma a little bit to, you know, get some private time.

Dr. Katie 28:42

He's a huge intro. You need a moodster that says gone fishing, and like it's in, you know, tribute to your it's the time where we're just having that that uh the fringe Sunday, the fringe Sunday moodster. Wouldn't that be so funny? Well, and it's you know, I love talking about, you know, from that leadership standpoint, because when we talk about, you know, when we don't rest, we we preach about this, right? When we don't rest, things happen to us. We make poor decisions, we're so tired that we're doing reactive leadership, we're not pausing to check our emotions where we don't have that regulation where you know, which then conflict rises, we lose our patience, we have this emotional reaction, we get more stressed easier, and so then people don't want to engage with us, they don't want to be around us, they don't want to, they feel like I'm I'm not going there, I'm not gonna poke the bear, right? I'm not gonna be involved. And so then that we see that creativity decline, we see the engagement decline. We cannot be high performers, we cannot really have that six true success when we're just exhausted and going all the time.

Rhonda Jolyean 30:00

Yes, we all know those people who don't rest, they just react. Yeah, yeah.

Dr. Katie 30:07

Well, and we talked about it last week, the Ariana Huffington example of where her body is like, and we're done. You're you're now passed out with a broken cheek. Like you're done. Um, and it's not always that dramatic, but but we see it. I mean, we hear from people all the time where it's like, you know, I've been sick for months, you know, I've had this cough or I've had this whatever, and now I'm, you know, in bed or I'm in the hospital or whatever, because your body eventually is like, if you're not giving you the warning signals, now we're just gonna take it from you.

Homework For Real Recovery Time

Rhonda Jolyean 30:40

100%. And we see I see it more and more as I get older. So you can't escape from it. Yeah, yeah.

Dr. Katie 30:49

So we love to give homework, right? We we we love this so much. So we came up with some some homework. Um so for individuals really having that non-negotiable window, window, even if it's just three to four hours, right? Just some time to say, okay, I'm gonna define what rest looks like and and practice that. And and what are those some of those productivity Sunday habits? What is some of that work that you're doing on Sunday that that you can remove from your theoretical Sunday? Maybe it's not Sunday, like you said, maybe it's Tuesday night, but but what are some of those things that you can remove so you can spend some time doing that? Mm-hmm.

Rhonda Jolyean 31:31

Yeah. And I would also, if people are out there thinking, again, maybe I don't really understand how this is going to help ROI, maybe just ask some of your coworkers if they've heard of French Sundays. It could get a conversation started. People love talking about popular culture things, especially social media, you know? Yeah. That could get a conversation started. That might then lead to well, what does a French Sunday mean for you? How do you rest, relax, renew? What could that maybe look like for our team? Again, that could lead to funny naming. Who knows? And that we've talked about how even opening up those vulnerable discussions improves psychological trust, which then bolsters your leadership for your team. So yeah, yeah.

Dr. Katie 32:27

And I think those are important conversations to have. And I I think as leaders, you know, we've got to stop glorifying being overworked. We've got to stop, you know, praising people for that. We got to really build recovery as part of the team norm. And I have leaders that I will tell them stop sending emails outside of quote unquote normal business hours. And for some people, it's hard. Like for me, sometimes I just got to get it out of my brain. And I'll do this with texts to the kids too. It's like, I've got to get this out of my brain, but also I don't want to send it at, you know, 10 p.m. So I'll put delayed send on it so it's out of my brain so I can rest, but it doesn't create this urgency that you've got to reply because the kids have a special sound on their phone. They know that if mama sends a message, there's a finite time for you to reply before there's a conversation. I I've taken it too far with them that now they have a sound when my text comes through. But but it's the same with our employees, right? When something comes through and they're like, Oh, my boss is my boss is sending me a note. And so, you know, creating those boundaries and having those conversations, and we're gonna talk about in a future podcast really creating that clarity about what actually is urgent, or sometimes what am I just asking a question about?

Rhonda Jolyean 33:48

Yes, the assumptions for sure.

Dr. Katie 33:51

Yeah, yeah. So that's all homework. So, really the reflection question is what would change if you stopped treating Sunday like a setup day and started really teaching it like a rest day or a reset day and practicing a French Sunday habit, doing some research, noticing how your energy, your mindset, and how you show up really changes for people.

Rhonda Jolyean 34:15

Yeah, I like it. I need to reassess my French Sundayness as solopreneurs. We don't always get the weekend-ish French Sunday allotted time. And yeah, I am going to start carving out more intentional time for my aesthetic engagement that helps me renew.

Dr. Katie 34:36

So yeah, I agree. I agree. And it's funny because I spend a lot of times on Sunday getting ready for the work week. And as I am reading this, it's like, oh, I'm gonna spend time getting ready for the work week by uh just taking care of myself, um and and prioritizing better, like if you know what what really is is urgent and what is just on the list.

Rhonda Jolyean 35:01

Yes, go golfing, go fishing, go golfing.

Dr. Katie 35:05

Right, right. Well, I love it. And I we've got some exciting conversations coming up. I'm really excited for the next couple conversations.

Rhonda Jolyean 35:14

I know. So, next podcast, we have a guest joining us. He is a good friend of mine. I used to work with him and now in corporate America, and now he is an astrologer. We are having my friend Jason Dills on. And you might be thinking, astrology and leadership. Well, yes, Jason is going to talk to us about how astrology is actually a leadership tool and how we all can be using it to set ourselves apart and how we can get into astrology at a high level if we're not into that. We this came up because, well, first I'm into astrology, but also I'm starting to get Katie into it a little bit. And when we, you know, if you've listened to the podcast and you listened to our personality assessment episode, you heard that Katie and I are both Capricorn's sons. And that means that we quote unquote should be a little bit alike. And we are to a point, but we are very different. And so Jason will be telling the audience why that is specifically. And these are fun things that maybe your team can do, and he'll be discussing that. So we are actually opening up openings for people that if you know someone or yourself are experts in a certain field and you are interested in joining conversations about leadership skill sets, what new leadership tools you might bring to this field, we would love to have you send us a note, send us a message. Maybe you have a book coming out, or maybe you're working on a new project or in an innovative field, reach out to us and we would love to see if that would be something that you know could work for the podcast because we are having so many cool guests coming up that we're just we're loving these conversations.

Dr. Katie 37:27

Yeah, it's so fun, and it's fun to hear as we're having conversations with people outside the podcast about the podcast. Like, what do they want to hear? What do they want to see? And so I'm I I love astrology, I love the idea of it. I've not dug deep into it, so I cannot wait for that. And it it is a leadership. We talk about personality, we talk about behaviors, we talk about productivity, like who we are is how we show up at work. So yeah, and I'm excited to hear from our community, people that want to come on and be a part of the podcast. And we have some new listeners from Prosper, Texas, from Springfield, Massachusetts, Massachusetts, um trying to find the Finland. We just had someone from Finland, which is really fun. Yeah, so it's just really cool seeing all of our new locations and listeners and and what they're interested in. So we yeah, we want to hear from you. And if you want to be on a guest, make a pitch to us. Please don't make an AI pitch. If an AI bot is listening to this, I will delete your AI pitch. Do a human pitch to us because we want this to be a meaningful podcast to people. So don't turn your bot on and think that you're gonna get on the show because you're not.

Rhonda Jolyean 38:48

No, no, just like a simple, hey, here's what I'm interested in, here's what I do. Please reach out. We would love to connect with anybody that's interested and have you on if it works.

Share The Podcast And Closing

Dr. Katie 39:00

Yeah, yeah, I love it. Well, and we always appreciate everyone listening and sharing the podcast. I know it was shared a lot last week. The art of saying no, people shared that a lot. I had some people say, I sent that to my sister and I sent that to my mom. And so we we love when you share, we love when you leave comments and let us know. So you can send us emails, you can connect with us on LinkedIn, all of our stuff is in the show notes. We want to hear from you and and we would have the podcast and have the conversations if it's just between us, but it's really fun to hear how we're impacting others too.

Rhonda Jolyean 39:39

Yes. We're just thankful for our audience and our community always. Yeah, yeah.

Dr. Katie 39:46

Awesome. Well, good conversation. I'm gonna go do some reflection on my French Sunday, and I'm gonna have a disconnected, peaceful, wonderful dinner with my husband tonight that I have not been home for dinner all week. So I made the French Sunday decision that I'm going to do that with my husband tonight.

Rhonda Jolyean 40:07

Excellent. And I'm gonna go get me a fun drink, like a iced coffee or something, and then I'm going to play with some stickers.

Dr. Katie 40:17

I love it. I love it. Well, thank you everyone for joining us this week on the path to leadership, and we'll talk to you next week. Bye, everyone. Uh