Showing Up Anyway: What Leadership Looks Like When You're Running on Empty

Some days you sit down to lead and the “right” message just won’t come out, because your body knows it would be a performance. Rhonda records a first-ever solo conversation and makes a real-time pivot into the thing many leaders never name: how to show up when you’re tired, burned out, or simply not feeling it, without slipping into fake positivity.

We talk about the cultural habit of treating enthusiasm as currency and why it gets rewarded in professional spaces, social spaces, and creative work. Then we dig into the price tag: slow erosion of authenticity, stress that your team can sense, and a fast track to burnout. If you’ve ever answered “I’m good” when you weren’t, you’ll recognise how quickly “being on” becomes a leadership mask that undercuts trust and employee engagement.

From there, we get practical about authentic leadership and psychological safety. Presence without pretense can sound subtle, but it changes everything: naming a slower week, setting clear expectations, communicating availability, asking for help, and taking a mental health day when it’s truly needed. We also explore the creativity cost of performed energy and why consistency often serves your team better than charisma.

If this resonates, share it with a leader who needs permission to be real, then subscribe and leave a review so more people can find the show. What’s one place in your life where you’re performing enthusiasm instead of being present?

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Transcript

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Solo Start And Honest Pivot

Rhonda Jolyean 0:32

Welcome back to the Path to Leadership podcast. I'm Rhonda Jolene. And today I'm actually missing Dr. Katie. It's my first solo episode. And in fact, I am really missing Dr. Katie. I am lonely. And to be totally vulnerable and honest, which is what we try to promote in every episode that we discuss in our leadership podcasts. I had a completely different topic to discuss today than what I'm actually going to discuss with you. I was going to talk about reinvention and I was going to talk about a lot of lives that I've lived and how we can transform and all of this. And I just wasn't feeling it in my body when I set up to do it. It didn't feel aligned. And so I decided to pivot and discuss exactly that. Of course, I'm missing Katie. And I was bummed. And I thought, you know, instead of trying to push it and fake it, because that's definitely not one of my values, nor the values of this show, I was going to use it and talk about what that's like. Because for all of us, especially leaders, that's something we have to deal with all of the time. So today we're going to talk about that, talk about showing up anyway, even when you are tired, even when you're not feeling it, even when maybe you're burned out. So I know that you show up for us. And I definitely want to show up for you. And I know that we've all felt this before. In fact, in leadership and in our personal lives, I actually was discussing over coffee the other day with my dear friend Kate. And shout out to Kate because she is an avid listener of this podcast. So thank you very much, Kate. But we were discussing the dichotomy of, you know, having a fuller life by actually showing up to things even when at first you don't want to. And that in relationship to the shortness of life. And, you know, I think this has obviously become a huge meme on the internet. But when you've been invited to a party and you want to go, but you're in your pajamas,

Showing Up When You’re Empty

Rhonda Jolyean 3:42

or you know, you made plans a month in advance and then you just aren't feeling it, or you really want to go, but you're just so tired from your work schedule or your kids or whatever the reason might be. It's just especially as I can speak for myself, as we get older, it's harder to show up for the people that we love and the things that we value, even in life. Even though ironically, we know that life is short, things get harder to show up for. And, you know, when we do end up pushing ourselves to say, I really value these relationships of these people at this party, or even I really know that I'll have a good time when I finally get out of the house and see these people, or I'm gonna just try to go for an hour or so, giving ourselves little baby steps to get to the party. We end up usually having an amazing time and being thankful in retrospect that we did. So that's something that we have all felt like, even you know, walking through the door, the moment that we walk through the door at that party, we can all know remember that feeling, put ourselves in that feeling of, okay, I'm here, I'm breathing in, I feel calm, I feel better. I don't know about you, but I always do. So I don't know why I find myself on it, but it's just the trudge of life. And you know, you can say you don't do it, but you know that you do. And how much of that in leadership is the same? How much of that performance do we act out in our leadership roles? And how much of leadership is just survival? Because the truth is that most of us learned early on that enthusiasm is currency. And I'm gonna repeat that because this is something that I've had to learn multiple times in my life. Enthusiasm is currency, especially if you grew up in a culture like I'm gonna use my personal life, the Midwest, and or if you identify as a female like I do, being on is just what's expected. And so being on in social spaces, in creative spaces, in professional spaces, enthusiasm is rewarded. Showing up as your true self, I'm hoping in life, it seems like for Gen Z that's getting better and easier. But as we were growing up, it was definitely you show up with enthusiasm, you show up to be on, you show up to perform. And that's something that, you know, when you learn that enthusiasm is currency, it's hard to then feel what you're truly feeling. And to bring it back to today, you know, I didn't want to have the feeling in my body of oh, I'm not giving my audience an authentic version and what I'm really feeling because, and this is something I work through a lot, but being vulnerable is hard. It's hard for me. And I just want to show up as my authentic self. And so I'm hoping that this is something that you're also relating to. I hope maybe you're not feeling it today, but that you can relate to. But enthusiasm as currency, nobody talks about. Maybe if you go to a therapist, but definitely I no one ever talked about it in my workspaces that I've worked in. And there is a true cost when you go to when you've pushed yourself to show up somewhere, and you like let's go back to the party example. You've pushed yourself to go, but you don't show up as your authentic self. You show up and you're like, everything's fine. Everybody knows that, you know, especially I think in the United States, the response to how are you feeling? Everything's fine. I'm good, even when it's not. You know, if you push yourself to show up and to be enthusiastic, even when you're not, you're going to not only head to more burnout, but you're just more exhausted and it chips

The Party Test For Life

Rhonda Jolyean 8:27

away every time you do it, and every time you show up inauthentically, it's a slow erosion of something that's genuine. And that is a fast track to burnout, right? So I think it's important for us to ask the question of when did you last show up somewhere as yourself, not as the version of yourself that you thought that the room or the people that you were around needed? So if you think back to maybe this past work week, did you show up as yourself as the leader? Did you say, you know, everything's great, everything's fine? Or did you actually show up and say, hey, things are tough? And here's how we're going to get through it. You know, we've talked about this on previous episodes, especially when it comes to transformation, when it comes to change, the more vulnerable that leaders can be when it comes to feelings, vibes, as we're describing it now, the better because people respect that more than they do just a blanket. Everything's fine, everything's okay. There will be no job cuts because of AI, etc. People can see right through that. And honestly, your body can see right through that too. And that can create a lot of stress-related illness down the line. And so, yeah, leaders, we are exposed to this a lot if we don't show up as ourselves. And by the way, there's no handbook for this in any leadership course that I was in. So this is something I think that we have to be more vulnerable about and discuss as not only leaders, but with our teams. Because if we're expecting ourselves to do it, then this should be something that we instill in the culture as well. If people feel they should have that psychological safety to show up and to feel like they can be their authentic selves and say, you know, I'm not really feeling it this week. It's tough. And this is what I need to get through it. That's why I'm so excited for the rise of the mental health day, because our mental health is our physical health, you know. So and for me, everything comes back to the human. Everything comes back to the human-centered problem. So when you perform enthusiasm, going back to that performance aspect, you actually if you perform enthusiasm that you don't have, you model in authentic inauthenticity. Whoa. You model inauthenticity. It's a big word. And your team learns that feelings are things to manage and not things to acknowledge. So again, the vibes, checking on the vibes, and to say, I can show up as my whole self to work, or I have to smush things down. And smushing things down is not going to get the best engagement out of your team. And thus your ROI is going to drop down when it comes to your staff. So that's something that you want to encourage is to have people show up as their authentic selves. But it starts with you, as everything does. And there's also a creativity cost. Performed energy is closed energy. And what I mean by that is it's protective, genuine creativity and genuine connection requires a kind of openness that performance shuts down. So our bodies are creative beings. I've talked about this before. We all have creativity within us. And if you continue to perform in authenticity, word of the day,

Enthusiasm As Currency At Work

Rhonda Jolyean 12:42

then your body will learn that that energy needs to be closed down. And then you won't be able to show up as your authentic self. And you know, I want to make a note that this isn't about venting to your team or making your bad week or your bad, your bad feelings, or your bad attitude their problem, or even bringing too much of your personal life into the workspace. That's not what I'm asking or suggesting that you do at all. It's just it's even more subtler than that. It's really the difference between that everything's fine, I'm good, and being present even when you're not. So the being present is showing up even when you're not feeling it, like today, you know, I was feeling like I wanted to show up for you all, but in I needed to figure out the way that it meant. So even though I had all of these things going on in my life, I knew that I couldn't be authentic in speaking about reinvention today, because I am going through so many small reinventions in my life constantly, to be honest, but also just this week, next week. And so I felt it more authentic to show up, be vulnerable, and say, Hey, I want to be here. And this is what I can authentically talk about. And this is what is genuine and is from a place of creativity instead of pushing something that isn't. And so in a works workspace, this might look like if you do have lots of personal things happening in your life, making known to your team, hey, there is a lot happening in my personal life. There might be days where I'm out. And that doesn't mean that I'm not going to not show up or hey, I will be available by phone these hours extra if you need me. And if I forget a meeting, please let me know. You know, it's taking those extra steps to be present for your team, even in the face of other things happening in your life. And I think, again, it's thinking about what it means to be present in a way that is authentic in that season of your life. And again, it just goes back to being human. That's what we like always talk about on this podcast, is you don't stop being human when you become a leader. You have to empathize with staff and say, what would I have liked when I was a staff member? I don't want to think, wow, my boss keeps taking time off. Are they looking for another job? Now I don't need to know every single thing about their personal life. No, if that's not the kind of relationship that we have, absolutely not. However, I do need to have expectations around, you know, what when I'll when they'll be available, when they won't be available, who I can go to instead, etc. So and you know, to go back to transformations and change, even in the midst of chaos, the irony is that the leaders that people trust the most are rarely the ones who seem the most energized. They're the ones who are actually seem most real. And to give you an example, I learned early in my career. Oh boy, thinking back, I learned early in my career that I was rewarded and seen, who doesn't want to be seen, right? And recognized for extreme enthusiasm and positivity and rapid productivity. And it got me noticed and it got me praised. And who doesn't want that, right? But you know, that even though it did get me noticed and got me praised, I eventually burnt out because what I was doing was stuffing down the emotions that I wasn't addressing, you know, outside of my job, which dealt with personal trauma. I was actually stuffing it down, and then eventually that created sickness and illness, and then I got burnt out later in my career. Instead of showing up, asking for help when I needed it early in my career, saying when things weren't okay, saying that I needed mental health days, asking for advice, asking for mentor, mentors, asking, you know, for all of these things. And that would, as a leader, people respect people who show up and who are real, who don't have all of the answers, who aren't just the most charismatic people in the room. People can see right through that. You can see right through that. That's why we follow people on, you know, social media platforms who have real emotions. They have overcome things, yes, but they still have obstacles and they share their truth and they share what's maybe not going right or you know, fails. And it's not that we want to see people fail, it's that we want to feel seen ourselves. We want to say, oh my gosh, I have a connection with a person because they've also gone through this, something similar. I'm not alone in that. I used to think, oh, I think like everybody, especially when Instagram first came out and there used to be the rise of the influencer. Wow, I am really behind. I need to be a travel influencer, and I have to have all of these travel beautiful vacation photos. My husband is a terrible Instagram photographer taker. That's true in real life. And I need to up my skills on dressing and all of the, you know, all this stuff. It's like behind the curtain, we all know that that is not real now, but it's still hard to not look at it. And the most fun people on Instagram are the ones that show their obstacles, show their struggles, say things that we're all thinking about, you know, TV shows or whatever, are the ones that are putting, yeah, no, just they relate to us like our friends. And that's what we all crave is authenticity, especially in a world that has is rising in chaos, is rising in misinformation. And it's hard to remember that when we still reward people for, you know, this these glamorous huge accomplishments. And that's fine, but you can still want to do all those things and still show up as your authentic self. So, what does all of this look like? I think looking like you know, showing up doesn't mean performing. I and those are two different things. So presence without pretense is a leadership skill. And it means I'm here, I'm

The Burnout Cost Of Performing

Rhonda Jolyean 21:12

doing the work, and I'm not going to fake what I don't feel. So, what this looks like in practice, and we've kind of talked about this, is I'm having a slower week, but let's get into it anyway. And letting the work carry sessions instead of the energy that you carry into it. Again, not faking the energy, but also focusing more on the work when you don't have that energy that you'd normally want to have. And then also trusting this is, I know, a difficult one. I know it is for me too, even with my friends, not even thinking about staff, but with my friends, trusting that people don't need you to be electric, they need you to be consistent. For me, and I think for some of you out there listening, when you provide yourself on pieces of your personality being great pieces of your identity, strong pieces of your identity, you know, I often people associate my joy, showing up with joy, loving things around joy as a huge part of my identity. And so when I feel Sad when I feel the depths of despair, I get very confused within myself because I'm a very external. I need that mirror of external reflection to say, what am I showing up as? And so I don't want to bring people down. And at the same time, I have to be my authentic self. I can't just show up enjoy all the time. That's not a human experience. So I have to trust that people just need me to be consistent. My friends, my old teammates, because I actually just work solo most of the time now, or like Katie, that's a good example. You know, she doesn't need me to be electric all of the time. She just needs me to show up. And even you all, I'm gonna trust that you all don't need me to be electric all the time. You just need me to be consistent. And that's the exact same way for your team, your staff, your co-workers, your peers, your family. And if they expect something different or you think that they do, having a conversation can go a long way. I know it has for me. There's also a creativity angle to this, right? So think about it. Some of the most interesting creative work comes from constraint and low energy. Some of the best artists in history have actually created their best artwork after having years of not producing anything. They have to take time for reflection, they have to take time for rest. So I know that's difficult in our society to even believe, and believe you me, but that's always difficult for me as a type a Capricorn who you know has learned early on in her career that again, productivity is queen. I don't always remember to rest. So, but when I think about the best artists in the world take rest, and then they produce something amazing, that helps me. And you know, often when we stop trying to impress others and even ourselves, something amazing and honest comes out through ourselves and through our work. And the real human-centered principle underneath all of this is people don't connect to our high-leg reel, they connect to our humanity. And I the best way that I think about this is people's legacy. So my grandmother, I don't think anybody, you know, there are obviously people in the world that you can remember what they did, right? Significant historical figures. But that I think those people are few and far between. It is truly what Maya Angelou said. People remember you for how you make them feel. When my grandmother passed away, and my grandmother was my best friend, truly, the person that we had doing her funeral service was a good family friend. And he summed up the way that my grandmother made him and everyone around her feel. And he said, being around Connie was like being wrapped up in a warm hug. And I'm trying not to tear up, but you know, that speaks nothing to her highlight reel. That speaks nothing of how she went from being a stay-at-home mother to being a manager at a bank in the 1970s at a time when women weren't really given leadership positions. You know, that speaks nothing to all of the school board work that she did in Kansas and all of these great accomplishments that she did. But like that legacy and how people how you make people feel that is way more important. People connect to that humanity, and even if they can't put a name to it as eloquently as that, that that's what life's all about, right? And I think we miss out on those opportunities to be consistent and to connect to humanity when we don't at least try to show up. And I'm not saying that we should push ourselves in every situation to show up because we do need to rest. So if there's a party next time, if there's a staff meeting and you really, really can't show up, I totally get it. I'm the first person to say, take a mental health break. And life is short. And if you can show up, but you still aren't feeling it, then just say, you know, I'm having a tough week and I'm here, and I would love to hear about how you're doing today. Or I would love to talk about something that made your week positive and see how that changes your perspective. See how showing up changes how you connect to folks because that will make that human connection more consistent and it'll better how you feel, it'll better your life, it'll better their life, and yeah, it'll just it will eliminate that performance aspect and it'll really help you focus on the connection aspect. So I just want to leave you today with a question of where in your life are you performing enthusiasm instead of just being present? And what would it look like if you stop? That could be professionally, that could be personally, it could be in relationships, even. Think about how it could change if you stop performing enthusiasm, how showing up more authentically could change that connection and how it could change for you overall. I'm so glad that I showed up today, even if I wasn't feeling my totally joyful self. I hope that you got something out of this today. I know having you all who show up for us consistently for Katie and I, it gives me a reason to want to continue to learn and to show up. And you all mean so much to us. I know that we get so giddy when we see that more countries have downloaded and that more cities and more people are downloading. And it just it's so fun. And we always say we are obviously not doing this for money, and even if no one listens, we always just do it for ourselves and to see each other. And but we know that when we see that you all are getting a little bit out of it, when you message us, it just means the world. And I hope that today you can show up more authentically to something this week that you can not perform enthusiasm and that you can think a little bit about how you can be more consistent instead of focusing on

Psychological Safety Starts With Leaders

Rhonda Jolyean 30:37

that highlight reel, on that charisma, on that performance overall. So thank you for everything. We will be back together on the next Katie and I will be back together on the next episode, and we have some really fun stuff coming up. Katie has been working so hard on some new products that we're gonna be reviewing. We're gonna have some cool guests coming up. So lots to look forward to. Let us know what you thought about this episode. DM me, message me for any questions. And if you have any suggestions of topics, we'd love to hear because we are here for you and we are here for your leadership journey. And we just thank you so much. I hope you have an amazing rest of your week and we will talk soon. Bye, everyone. Okay. All right. Three, two, one. And today I'm actually missing Dr. Katie. It's my first solo episode, and in fact, I am really missing Dr. Katie. I am lonely, and to be totally vulnerable and honest, which is what we try to promote in every episode that we discuss in our leadership podcasts. I had a completely different topic to discuss today than what I'm actually going to discuss with you. I was going to talk about reinvention and I was going to talk about a lot of lives that I've lived and how we can transform and all of this. And I just wasn't feeling it in my body when I set up to do it. It didn't feel aligned. And so I decided to pivot and discuss exactly that. What you know, it feels like to show up when it's really hard. I, you know, to be honest, I've had several things happening in my personal life lately. Of course, I'm missing Katie. You know, I do so well in conversation with people and discussing that. And that I was kind of bummed about having to be on my own, although, of course, completely excited to show up for you all. But at the same time, I just wasn't feeling it and I was bummed. And I thought, you know, instead of trying to push it and fake it, because that's definitely not one of my values, nor the values of this show, I was gonna use it and talk about what that's like. Because for all of us, especially leaders, that's something we have to deal with all of the time. So today we're gonna talk about that, talk about showing up anyway, even when you are tired, even when you're not feeling it, even when maybe you're burned out. So I know that you show up for us, and I definitely want to show up for you. And I know that we've all felt this before. In fact, in leadership and in our personal lives, I actually was discussing over coffee the other day with my dear friend Kate, and shout out to Kate because she is an avid listener of this podcast. So thank you very much, Kate. But we were discussing the dichotomy of you know having a fuller life by actually showing up to things even when at first you don't want to, and that in relationship to the shortness of life. And, you know, I think this has obviously become a huge meme on the internet, but when you've been invited to a party and you want to go, but you're in your pajamas, or you know, you made plans a month in advance and then you just aren't feeling it, or you really want to go, but you're just so tired from your work schedule or your kids or whatever the reason might be. It's just especially as I can speak for myself, as we get older, it's harder to show up for the people that we love and the things that we value, even in life. Even though ironically, we know that life is short, things get harder to show up for. And you know, when we do end up pushing ourselves to say, I really value these relationships of these people at this party, or even I really know that I'll have a good time when I finally get out of the house and see these people, or I'm gonna just try to go for an hour or so, giving ourselves little baby steps to get to the party. We end up usually having an amazing time and being thankful in retrospect that we did. So that's something that we have all felt like, even you know, walking through the door, the moment that we walk through the door at that party, we can all remember that feeling, put ourselves in that feeling of okay, I'm here, I'm breathing in, I feel calm, I feel better. I don't know about you, but I always do. So I don't know why I find myself on it, but it's just the trudge of life. And you know, you can say you don't do it, but you know that you do. And how much of that in leadership is the same? How much of that performance do we act out in our leadership roles? And how much of leadership is just survival? Because the truth is that most of us learned early on that enthusiasm is currency. And I'm gonna repeat that because this is something that I've had to learn multiple times in my life. Enthusiasm is currency, especially if you grew up in a culture like I'm gonna use my personal life, the Midwest, and or if you identify as a female like I do, being on is just what's expected. And so being on in social spaces, in creative spaces, in professional spaces, enthusiasm is rewarded. Showing up as your true self, I'm hoping in life, it seems like for Gen Z that's getting better and easier. But as we were growing up, it was definitely you show up with enthusiasm, you show up to be on, you show up to perform. And that's something that, you know, when you learn that enthusiasm is currency, it's hard to then feel what you're truly feeling. And to bring it back to today, you know, I didn't want to have the feeling in my body of I'm not giving my audience an authentic version and what I'm really feeling because, and this is something I work through a lot, but being vulnerable is hard. It's hard for me. And I just want to show up as my authentic self. And so I'm hoping that this is something that you're also relating to. I hope maybe you're not feeling it today, but that you can relate to. But enthusiasm as currency, nobody talks about. Maybe if you go to a therapist, but definitely I no one ever talked about it in my workspaces that I've worked in. And there is a true cost when you go to when you've pushed yourself to show up somewhere, and you like let's go back to the party example. You've pushed yourself to go, but you don't show up as your authentic self. You show

Presence Without Pretense In Practice

Rhonda Jolyean 40:02

up and you're like, everything's fine. Everybody knows that, you know, especially I think in the United States, the response to how are you feeling? Everything's fine. I'm good, even when it's not. You know, if you push yourself to show up and to be enthusiastic, even when you're not, you're going to not only head to more burnout, but you're just more exhausted and it chips away every time you do it, and every time you show up and authentically, it's a slow erosion of something that's genuine. And that is a fast track to burnout, right? So I think it's important for us to ask the question of when did you last show up somewhere as yourself, not as the version of yourself that you thought that the room or the people that you were around needed? So if you think back to maybe this past work week, did you show up as yourself as the leader? Did you say, you know, everything's great, everything's fine? Or did you actually show up and say, hey, things are tough? And here's how we're going to get through it. You know, we've talked about this on previous episodes, especially when it comes to transformation, when it comes to change, the more vulnerable that leaders can be when it comes to feelings, vibes, as we're describing it now, the better because people respect that more than they do just a blanket. Everything's fine, everything's okay. There will be no job cuts because of AI, etc. People can see right through that. And honestly, your body can see right through that too. And that can create a lot of stress-related illness down the line. And so, yeah, leaders, we are exposed to this a lot if we don't show up as ourselves. And by the way, there's no handbook for this in any leadership course that I was in. So this is something I think that we have to be more vulnerable about and discuss as not only leaders, but with our teams. Because if we're expecting ourselves to do it, then this should be something that we instill in the culture as well. If people feel they should have that psychological safety to show up and to feel like they can be their authentic selves and say, you know, I'm not really feeling it this week. It's tough. And this is what I need to get through it. That's why I'm so excited for the rise of the mental health day, because our mental health is our physical health, you know. So and for me, everything comes back to the human. Everything comes back to the human-centered problem. So when you perform enthusiasm, going back to that performance aspect, you actually, if you perform enthusiasm that you don't have, you model in authentic inauthenticity. Whoa. You model inauthenticity. It's a big word. And your team learns that feelings are things to manage and not things to acknowledge. So again, the vibes, checking on the vibes, and to say, I can show up as my whole self to work, or I have to smush things down. And smushing things down is not going to get the best engagement out of your team. And thus your ROI is going to drop down when it comes to your staff. So that's something that you want to encourage is to have people show up as their authentic selves. But it starts with you, as everything does. And there's also a creativity cost. Performed energy is closed energy. And what I mean by that is it's protective. Genuine creativity and genuine connection requires a kind of openness that performance shuts down. So our bodies are creative beings. I've talked about this before. Have creativity within us, and if you continue to perform in authenticity, word of the day, then your body will learn that that energy needs to be closed down, and then you won't be able to show up as your authentic self. And you know, I want to make a note that this isn't about venting to your team or making your bad week or your bad, your bad feelings, or your bad attitude their problem, or even bringing too much of your personal life into the workspace. That's not what I'm asking or suggesting that you do at all. It's just it's even more subtler than that. It's really the difference between that everything's fine, I'm good, and being present even when you're not. So the being present is showing up even when you're not feeling it, like today, you know, I was feeling like I wanted to show up for you all, but in I needed to figure out the way that it meant. So even though I had all of these things going on in my life, I knew that I couldn't be authentic in speaking about reinvention today, because I am going through so many small reinventions in my life constantly, to be honest, but also just this week, next week. And so I felt it more authentic to show up, be vulnerable, and say, Hey, I want to be here. And this is what I can authentically talk about. And this is what is genuine and is from a place of creativity instead of pushing something that isn't. And so, in a works workspace, this might look like if you do have lots of personal things happening in your life, making known to your team, hey, there is a lot happening in my personal life. There might be days where I'm out. And that doesn't mean that I'm not going to not show up or hey, I will be available by phone these hours extra if you need me. And if I forget a meeting, please let me know. You know, it's taking those extra steps to be present for your team, even in the face of other things happening in your life. And I think, again, it's thinking about what it means to be present in a way that is authentic in that season of your life. And again, it just goes back to being human. That's what we like always talk

Creativity Needs Openness And Rest

Rhonda Jolyean 47:42

about on this podcast is you don't stop being human when you become a leader. You have to empathize with staff and say, what would I have liked when I was a staff member? I don't want to think, wow, my boss keeps taking time off. Are they looking for another job? No, I don't need to know every single thing about their personal life. No. If that's not the kind of relationship that we have, absolutely not. However, I do need to have expectations around, you know, what when I'll when they'll be available, when they won't be available, who I can go to instead, etc. So, and you know, to go back to transformations and change, even in the midst of chaos, the irony is that the leaders that people trust the most are rarely the ones who seem the most energized. They're the ones who are actually seem most real. And to give you an example, I learned early in my career. Oh boy, thinking back, I learned early in my career that I was rewarded and seen, who doesn't want to be seen, right? And recognized for extreme enthusiasm and positivity and rapid productivity. And it got me noticed and it got me praised. And who doesn't want that, right? But you know, that even though it did get me noticed and got me praised, I eventually burnt out because what I was doing was stuffing down the emotions that I wasn't addressing, you know, outside of my job, which dealt with personal trauma. I was actually stuffing it down, and then eventually that created sickness and illness, and then I got burnt out later in my career. Instead of showing up, asking for help when I needed it early in my career, saying when things weren't okay, saying that I needed mental health days, asking for advice, asking for mentor mentors, asking, you know, for all of these things. And that would, as a leader, people respect people who show up and who are real, who don't have all of the answers, who aren't just the most charismatic people in the room. People can see right through that. You can see right through that. That's why we follow people on, you know, social media platforms who have real emotions. They have overcome things, yes, but they still have obstacles and they share their truth and they share what's maybe not going right, or you know, fails. And it's not that we want to see people fail, it's that we want to feel seen ourselves. We want to say, oh my gosh, I have a connection with a person because they've also gone through this, something similar. I'm not alone in that. I used to think, oh, I think like everybody, especially when Instagram first came out and there used to be the rise of the influencer. Wow, I am really behind. I need to be a travel influencer, and I have to have all of these travel beautiful vacation photos. My husband is a terrible Instagram photographer taker. That's true in real life. And I need to up my skills on dressing and all of the, you know, all this stuff. It's like behind the curtain, we all know that that is not real now, but it's still hard to not look at it. And the most fun people on Instagram are the ones that show their obstacles, show their struggles, say things that we're all thinking about, you know, TV shows or whatever, are the ones that are putting, yeah, no, just they relate to us like our friends. And that's what we all crave is authenticity, especially in a world that has is rising in chaos, is rising in misinformation. And it's hard to remember that when we still reward people for, you know, this these glamorous, huge accomplishments. And that's fine, but you can still want to do all those things and still show up as your authentic self. So, what does all of this look like? I think looking like you know, showing up doesn't mean performing. I and those are two different things. So presence without pretense is a leadership skill. And it means I'm here, I'm doing the work, and I'm not going to fake what I don't feel. So, what this looks like in practice, and we've kind of talked about this, is I'm having a slower week, but let's get into it anyway. And letting the work carry sessions instead of the energy that you carry into it. Again, not faking the energy, but also focusing more on the work when you don't have that energy that you'd normally want to have. And then also trusting this is, I know a difficult one. I know it is for me too, even with my friends, not even thinking about staff, but with my friends, trusting that people don't need you to be electric, they need you to be consistent. For me, and I think for some of you out there listening, when you provide yourself on pieces of your personality being great pieces of your identity, strong pieces of your identity, you know. I often people associate my joy, showing up with joy, loving things around joy as a huge part of my identity. And so when I feel sad, when I feel the depths of despair, I get very confused within myself because I'm a very external, I need that mirror of external reflection to say, what am I showing up as? And so I don't want to bring people down. And at the same time, I have to be my authentic self. I can't just show up and joy all the time. That's not a human experience. So I have to trust that people just need me to be consistent. My friends, my old teammates, because I actually just work solo most of the time now, or like Katie, that's a good example. You know, she doesn't need me to be electric all of the time. She just needs me to show up. And even you all, I'm gonna trust that you all don't need me to be electric all the time. You just need me to be consistent. And that's the exact same way for your team, your staff, your co-workers, your peers, your family. And if they expect something different or you think that they do, having a conversation can go a long way. I know it has for me. There's also a creativity angle to this, right? So think about it. Some of the most interesting creative work comes from constraint and low energy. Some of the best artists in history have actually created their best artwork after having years of not producing anything. They have to take time for reflection, they have to take time for rest. So I know that's difficult in our society to even believe, and believe you me, that's always difficult for me as a type A Capricorn who you know has learned early on in her career that again, productivity is queen. I don't always remember to rest. So, but when I think about the best artists in the world take rest, and then they produce something amazing, that helps me. And you know, often when we stop trying to impress others and even ourselves, something amazing and honest comes out through ourselves and through our work. And the real human-centered principle underneath all of this is people don't connect to our highlight reel, they connect to our

Legacy Is How You Make People Feel

Rhonda Jolyean 57:12

humanity. And I the best way that I think about this is people's legacy. So my grandmother, I don't think anybody, you know, there are obviously people in the world that you can remember what they did, right? Significant historical figures. But that I think those people are few and far between. It is truly what Maya Angelou said. People remember you for how you make them feel. When my grandmother passed away, and my grandmother was my best friend, truly, the person that we had doing her funeral service was a good family friend. And he summed up the way that my grandmother made him and everyone around her feel. And he said, being around Connie was like being wrapped up in a warm hug. And I'm trying not to tear up, but you know, that speaks nothing to her highlight reel. That speaks nothing of how she went from being a stay-at-home mother to being a manager at a bank in the 1970s at a time when women weren't really given leadership positions. You know, that speaks nothing to all of the school board work that she did in Kansas and all of these great accomplishments that she did. But like that legacy and how people how you make people feel that is way more important. People connect to that humanity, and even if they can't put a name to it as eloquently as that, that that's what life's all about, right? And I think we miss out on those opportunities to be consistent and to connect to humanity when we don't at least try to show up. And I'm not saying that we should push ourselves in every situation to show up because we do need to rest. So if there's a party next time, if there's a staff meeting and you really, really can't show up, I totally get it. I'm the first person to say, take a mental health break. And life is short. And if you can show up, but you still aren't feeling it, then just say, you know, I'm having a tough week and I'm here, and I would love to hear about how you're doing today. Or I would love to talk about something that made your week positive and see how that changes your perspective. See how showing up changes how you connect to folks because that will make that human connection more consistent and it'll better how you feel. It'll better your life, it'll better their life, and yeah, it'll just it will eliminate that performance aspect and it'll really help you focus on the connection aspect. So I just want to leave you today with a question of where in your life are you performing enthusiasm instead of just being present? And what would it look like if you stop? That could be professionally, that could be personally, it could be in relationships, even. Think about how it could change if you stop performing enthusiasm, how showing up more authentically could change that connection and how it could change for you overall. I'm so glad that I showed up today, even if I wasn't feeling my totally joyful self. I hope that you got something out of this today. I know having you all who show up for us consistently for Katie and I, it gives me a reason to want to continue to learn and to show up. And you all mean so much to us. I know that we get so giddy when we see that more countries have downloaded and that more cities and more people are downloading. And it just it's so fun. And we always say we are obviously not doing this for money. And even if no one listens, we always just do it for ourselves and to see each other. And but we know that when

The Question To Take With You

Rhonda Jolyean 1:02:12

we see that you all are getting a little bit out of it, when you message us, it just means the world. And I hope that today you can show up more authentically to something this week that you can not perform enthusiasm and that you can think a little bit about how you can be more consistent instead of focusing on that highlight reel, on that charisma, on that performance overall. So thank you for everything. We will be back together on the next Katie and I will be back together on the next episode. And we have some really fun stuff coming up. Katie has been working so hard on some new products that we're gonna be reviewing. We're gonna have some cool guests coming up. So lots to look forward to. Let us know what you thought about this episode. DM me, message me for any questions. And if you have any suggestions of topics, we'd love to hear because we are here for you and we are here for your leadership journey. And we just thank you so much. I hope you have an amazing rest of your week and we will talk soon. Bye, everyone.