What You Practice In Stress Becomes Your Leadership Style

Growth doesn’t happen in a vacuum; it happens on messy days, under tight deadlines, and in the middle of real emotion. We’re unpacking growth, fixed, and neutral mindsets with honest stories about fear, feedback, and the quiet work of choosing action when your brain begs for safety. No slogans. Just practical ways to lead yourself when the stakes feel high.

We start by separating growth mindset from toxic positivity. Growth isn’t cheerleading; it’s learning with intention, especially when you’re tired or hurt. From energy leadership levels to the brain’s negativity bias, we explore why it’s normal to dip into withdrawal or anger under stress—and how to shorten that dip by naming emotions, adjusting your state, and returning to purpose. You’ll hear how criticism can sting for years, why courage walks beside fear, and how realism can make optimism stronger instead of softer.

We also dig into comparison and jealousy. Fixed mindset treats other people’s wins as threats; growth mindset treats them as clues. Use that signal to define a next small move, not a final judgment. When positivity feels out of reach, neutral mindset helps: stay present, avoid spirals, and focus on the next right step. Our go-to practices—pause to change your state, reframe when ready, and make one daily choice aligned with your values—turn mindset from a concept into a habit you can actually repeat.

If you’re ready to move from rumination to action, this conversation offers tools you can try today: simple state shifts, smarter feedback, and proof-finding routines that train your attention toward progress. Subscribe, share this with someone who needs a reset, and leave a quick review to help others find the show. What’s your next right step?

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Theme music by Emma Jo https://emmajo.rocks/

Chapters

• 0:00 Welcome Back & Setting The Theme
• 1:44 Growth Mindset As A Daily Practice
• 3:20 Stress, Burnout, And Slipping Fixed
• 5:07 Energy Levels And Leadership
• 8:47 Growth Mindset Versus Toxic Positivity
• 13:22 Fear, Courage, And Taking Action
• 16:52 Retraining The Brain And Bias
• 20:32 Comparison, Jealousy, And Choice
• 24:52 Neutral Mindset And Next Right Step
• 28:32 Practical Habits: Pause, Reframe, Act
• 32:52 Emotions, Processing, And EQ
• 36:52 Birthday Notes, Community, And CTA

Transcript

Dr. Katie: 0:33

Welcome back to the Path to Leadership. I'm Dr. Katie. And I'm Rhonda Jolene Hale. We are so excited to have you back this week. Rhonda, I missed you last week. I had to record it all by myself.

Rhonda Hale: 0:46

I know. I'm so sorry. I'm still feeling a little groggy. So if you hear my voice be a little crackly, that's why. But I missed you all too. But you, I listened to the podcast and I loved what you had to say about your lessons and growth mindset. You had some quotables that I have already talked to you about. I hope everyone else got as much out of it that I did.

Dr. Katie: 1:12

Good, good. Well, and I'm excited to continue the conversation because I know as we were prepping for last week, there were so many. I mean, we talk about this all the time. And so I thought, well, let's not rush through this. Let's spend more time on growth mindset and really the intentional leadership. Because I think it it sets a year off strong, but it's something we should all be practicing all the time.

Speaker: 1:34

Mm-hmm. And it's interesting because I almost said to myself today, growth mindset is a foundational mindset. And I feel like that is just a repetition because obviously, yes, you get to choose a fixed mindset or growth mindset. And I know later on you might talk about what having a neutral mindset is, but I don't even when the theory about fixed mindset and growth mindset was presented to me. I don't even remember when Carol Dweck's book came out, but when she codified it, I thought, oh, this makes so much sense. But I think you can be educated, you can learn your way into a growth mindset, you can learn your way into a fixed mindset, but you can also be, you can go back and forth and it's nonlinear throughout your life. Yeah. I do think though, that with that intentionality, it's very easy to make it a habit to be in a growth mindset, which is a positive thing. But you can also very easily slip back into a fixed mindset. That's just a word of caution to people.

Dr. Katie: 2:48

Yeah. And you're so right. And it's and then just thinking about, you know, we talk about when we're together, you know, the challenging times, whether it be stress at home or stress at work or just stress in general and burnout, and then, you know, just everything that's happening around the world from all kinds of stuff. I just did a session earlier today on which we love, but you know, talking about environmental factors. I mean, there's just so many things that are weighing on us. And I think even when we have the best practices of growth mindset, it's easy sometimes to fall into a more fixed mindset when things get really hard or we get really stressed, or frankly, sometimes just exhausted from it all.

Speaker: 3:33

The exhaustion is a factor that we don't take into consideration and emotions, human emotions. I talk a lot about how transformation and change is human-centered and how we always forget about that as humans. So we don't take the feeling into consideration enough. And someone with a growth mindset is they understand that. We obvious obviously as humans, we're going to forget that. But somebody with a fixed mindset is someone who understands this, but they focus too much on their emotion and that they can't change that emotion or that they can never get out of that emotion. It's almost like it's not an your person, but I do think of it as an your person as opposed to a really, I don't know why Tigger comes into mind, but Tigger comes into mind. I think I need to come up with a better like Disney character for growth mindset.

Dr. Katie: 4:38

But it's funny too. I as we're talking, I'm like, I'm thinking of this book that's on this bookshelf behind me. So I'm gonna pull it real quick. It is the seven energy leadership. Have you ever heard of that?

Speaker: 4:48

No, but I'm gonna get it.

Dr. Katie: 4:51

So everybody, bonus homework. It's by Bruce Schneider. It's called the Seven Level Framework for Mastery in Life and Business. So it's the Seven Energy Leadership. And so I've had a couple people introduce me to it. There's actually an assessment, it's a little pricey, but it's worth it. The cool thing about this is you have set someone who is certified, and this is going to be screaming at the podcast. I'm sorry, I'm just taking this a note, we'll say your name. But essentially, we have kind of our base level energy that we come into things at, but then in times of stress, we may go in and so like energy level one is like where we just want to crawl in bed and like pull the covers over our head and be like, leave me alone, don't talk to me, like just bring me more Oreos and leave me alone. And then we move up to this level seven, which is very like peace and on earth and how you know everything's so great. And how do we all thrive and succeed? And so depending on what's going on in our life, we have this different continuum. And the interesting thing, and the reason why this was brought into my life is there's certain people that bring different energy to me. So I was dealing with a very, very, very, very, very, very times a million toxic family member that was bringing me to energy level two, which was anger and hurt and everything else. And so it it just was a really cool. So side note, it's a really great book.

Speaker: 6:22

Okay. And so maybe that person, if you have a if that person has a fixed mindset, they aren't as able to move through the energies as much as a growth-minded or a growth mindset person. That would be an interesting study to do. I'm not gonna do it, but that would be an interesting study for someone to do.

Dr. Katie: 6:42

It's so good. And it just it it helps us think about you know our own mindset. And you know, when I think about mindset, it's it growth mindset is not, and I talked about this I think last week is the toxic positivity. I think people think growth mindset, they think just rah-rah, everything's perfect, and it's like, no, in a growth mindset, it's okay, what are we learning? How are we growing? How are we moving forward?

Speaker: 7:06

Yes, I think that is a great thing for people to take away, especially people that might be early career. I, when I was younger, I actually, if people know of Clifton strengths, your Clifton strengths can change, unlike some personality assessments, your Clifton strengths can change. And I was devastated to learn that as I got older, I lost positivity as one of my strengths. But it's actually okay because when I was younger, I as a leader and as an employee, I realized that I probably leaned on maybe not toxic positivity, but optimism to the point of blindness in terms of not seeing that not everything has to be improved, or not taking into other people's considerations, or not taking into account the diverse backgrounds of others. And so that is a lesson that I had to learn when I was early career and growing with other people and growing with experience. And so I'm okay now with having lost that strength. And that doesn't mean that I'm not done that I don't have an overall optimistic view of life. In fact, I think I have a more joy-centered life than most people do in our society today. However, I have more realism because of my experiences. And I, with a growth mindset, I do have the understanding that things are going to happen in life, but that I am resilient enough that I can overcome and that I am smart enough that I have the tools to lean on other people when I'm at an energy level one because of if I'm saying that correctly, because of other people, you know? And so I think that's yeah, I I hope that toxic positivity isn't something that people are talking about that much anymore. I hope people are understanding that we can have all kinds of feelings and that's valid.

Dr. Katie: 9:29

Yeah. Well, it's interesting to hear you talk about it because it makes me think about before Rob and I got married, we had to do marriage counseling in the church. And so we the first thing we had to do was we had to sit in in individual rooms and we had to take this assessment. And we went through the assessment and then we came back with the minister and he talked to us about our assessment. And he said, you know, overall you're all pretty aligned and number of kids and blah blah blah and all that stuff. And he said, I'm I'm very concerned about the future of your marriage because most couples who complete this assessment have this very like fairy tale expectation what marriage is is gonna be. And Rob and I have this very realistic like, it's gonna happen, it's not always gonna be great. And so, how do we overcome it? And so he like cautioned us about moving forward in our marriage because we didn't have this fairy tale of what marriage is supposed to be. It was so weird, and I mean, shout out, we just celebrated 25 years, but we're fine, we're fine. And I I don't think going in with that toxic positivity. I don't think that's healthy to think that you know it's gonna be this lovely, you know, lifetime together. Like he snores. I'm sorry, he does. Um I do things that annoy him. We're gonna as we talked about growth mindset, I shared with you. He he does not have a growth mindset and it makes me crazy. Um, but it's not a deal breaker. We work past it or we just we don't talk about it.

Speaker: 11:11

Right. So well, and I think to that end, but also on the opposite end, when it comes to people with a fixed mindset, they can have a fear of failure to the point where they don't even move forward. But I think it's not, I think people can take that the wrong way and then say, well, to then have a growth mindset, I have to not fear failure. And that's not at all the case. In fact, I still have a fear of failure, but I will state this again that the best quote I've ever heard about somebody talking about failure is because it's like who I mean, even I love the innovation space. I love people who are constantly pushing things forward and trying to improve and trying to better the world and leave it better than they found it. But I don't even like the the adage of fail fast because it that really sets people up for that fear of failure and maybe they're not ready for that. What I like is Susan Kane and she says, feel fail or fear is not the absence of what did she say? Hold on, I don't want to get it wrong. She says, fear is courage walking beside you or walking alongside you. So it's like you still have that fear, but you can have courage at the same time. So it's not that you have to have no fear of failure or that you have this, I I have, I'm so, you know, I love failure and all this kind of stuff. You can have a good sense of failure, but you have this courage to do it anyways. You know you're gonna fail and you just have this courage to do it. And so that's what I like to think about is that it's okay to fear that failure, but know that you're, you know, you have courage to do it.

Dr. Katie: 13:10

Yeah. And I think there's power in that. I mean, my daughter and I say it all the time, and I say it to other people like you can do hard things, like you can do things that scare you. And and I love that courage piece that walks alongside of you because it's it is, it's it's doing those big scary things that okay, it you may not be successful, but also you might, right? And I think there is that's where that growth mindset, there's there's bigger power in what but what if you succeed? What if it works? Like that's even greater than the the failure of it.

Speaker: 13:45

Yeah. And there's also the when I think about growth mindset, it's kind of tricky because it has the word mind in it. So you don't want to be an overthinker. You actually have to get outside of your mind and try things, you know. You can't think your way to success, you can't think your way to change, is what I say all of the time. You actually have to try things. I am listening I'll raise my hand and say, I'd rather try to think my way to change, but you can't. So even to have a growth mindset, you have to be willing to try, and that's action-oriented. So that's a little opposite of the word mindset. And I think people with the fixed mindset are the people who ruminate and they have these movies in their head about what will happen, even though it hasn't happened yet. And they just have stories going on and that worry, that's when that worry and that fear and all of that happens. And so us having growth mindsets, we have to know that that comes with action outside of our mind.

unknown: 14:54

Yeah.

Dr. Katie: 14:55

Well, and it ties so much into, you know, your brain is made to keep you alive, not happy. And so your brain is cautioning you, and you have to, you have to let your brain know, like, no, it's okay, we've got this, because your brain is that, oh, you've tried this before and it didn't work. Or, you know, what happens if it, you know, what if it happens again? And I I've shared this story with you, and and I don't know if I've ever shared it on the podcast, but there was back in April of 1990, 97, I spoke for the very first time ever. And I was so nervous, and I was on student government at Pittsburgh State, and I was giving an award to to my advisor. He was, he was, he was, he won the outstanding faculty award for the year, and he had just passed away. And he was the first funeral that I ever went to for an adult that wasn't family. So young and dumb, right? I'm 21, and I'm giving this award in this big, I can still to this day like your brain, I can tell you what it smelled like. I can tell you what what everything about the the room, and I give the award to his wife, who I just met at the funeral for the first time. And I come off stage and I look my mentor in the eye. I'm not gonna say his name because I'm not sure he listens to podcasts, but if he does, he'd be so mad that I said his name. But I look him in the eye and I can still hear his voice say, I said, I did it. And he said, You need to speak, we need to work on your speaking skills. And that is like trenched in my brain. And so now when I speak, I can still hear his voice, and I know that that breaks his heart because that was not his intention. But my brain, that fixed mindset in my brain is like, Don't go out there, it's scary. Don't go out there, you might fail. Don't go out there, but you might not do a good job. And it's that trenched, and it's me kicking through that and being like, I got this. I've grown a lot, I've had a lot of experience, but that that fixed mindset is trying to keep you safe and not necessarily happy and not successful. And it's like, I got this, I can bring down the house today.

Speaker: 17:11

Yes, and it's trying to, well, first of all, yeah, every time you tell that story, it's really interesting that you I've heard you tell that story about three times, and every single time you get very sensorial about it, and you yeah, it's like you embody that day. And we all have those moments where we can remember it. And that speaks to not just even having a fixed mindset, it speaks to our brains and what I talked about a couple of podcasts ago, the negativity bias, and how it's so much easier to for our brain to say, Oh, I could be a speaker that has spoken now a million times, and 98% have gone amazingly well. But the one that sticks out is the one where my mentor said we need to work on your speaking skills. And it's totally true. And so that's where that fixed or the growth mindset comes in because we're constantly having to retrain our brain literally, like the muscle that it is, like athletes train their brain, retrain it or retrain their bodies. We have to retrain our brain like a muscle. So then that way it doesn't have that negativity bias and that it grows literally like a muscle, to then see the other times and to remember oh no, I am a skilled speaker and I can do this today. And that was a growing opportunity for me. It still stings and that's valid. And I've done all these amazing things.

Dr. Katie: 18:46

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and it is. It's that that reminder that that voice in your head that's trying to keep you safe. It's like, nope, I got it. We're good. We've practiced, I've done the work, I, you know, I've got the scars, we're we're fine. It's okay. And and the other reminder for myself is not everyone's gonna love what I say. And that's okay too. I mean, that's part of that fixed mindset, growth mindset. Like that growth mindset is, you know, it it's okay if not anyone loves me. It's okay if not anyone thinks that I, you know, wants to throw me on their shoulders and carry me out of the room. It's that's okay. It's you know, I'm making impact for people.

Speaker: 19:23

Right. Exactly. And I have a very similar story in that I mean, how many times have I been criticized about speaking and going in front of people? However, you know, I will remember one time specifically, and I could I could talk about all the ways that I, you know, this was in my early 30s. So by then I had been speaking for a long time and had been paid to speak. And this was just a phone conversation presentation that I was having with, you know, a director and a team. And my boss happened to be listening in, and there was lots of you know, chatter going on. I was in a busy hospital, all of these things. But my boss brought me, took me aside and said, I feel like you are, you know, your presentation skills are low. And in for me, I got mad. So instead of getting sad. Had my emotion was mad. And so my fixed mindset was, well, okay, I'm mad now. He doesn't know what he's talking about. You know, all of this negativity came up. So then how I turned on my growth mindset was, well, you know, I'm gonna show him. And I think at first it started out as a revenge. But then it turned out positive. And, you know, by the end of my time with this person as a boss, he knew what a wonderful speaker I was. And, you know, put me up for promotions and all of these things. And so that was something that I'll never forget. But just like you, every time I have a phone conversation, I kind of always have in the back of my head, you know, what how is this coming across?

unknown: 21:27

So yeah.

Dr. Katie: 21:28

Well, and it's so interesting you talk about it because it talks about too, like the that fixed mindset, you know, can pull us into that negativity and that disengagement where we're reactive and emotional and you know, some connection can be lost. I mean, it's so easy sometimes for us to fall into it. And I think, you know, as we talked before about emotions, a lot of that is probably, you know, our own feeling of maybe embarrassment or hurt, or you know, and and it doesn't mean that we don't even hear the feedback, it's just maybe we we say it differently. But that fixed mindset allows us to go into that like drudgery of, well, that's not true, or or you know, burnout or sadness or whatever causes from that.

Speaker: 22:13

Right. And it's like you and I always talk about how when we hear other people talking about their vulnerable times and the times that maybe gave them the scars or when they were in the fixed mindset spaces, as we're talking today, we can relate and we can say, Oh, I feel that too, or I've felt that too. And we don't think less of them, but for some reason, when it comes to yourself, it just is so painful to even admit that and to be vulnerable. And I know some people are way better at it than others, but for me personally, it will always be part of my growth mindset to share more vulnerabilities and to say this is a lesson learned. I mean, feedback for me, I still have a problem with saying feedback is a gift. I will never like that term. And I know you do like it, but for me, that's just not uh feedback is needed and it I like it when it is given in good, not good context. It has to be the right context. And, you know, there's certain ways that are better for me and the way that I like to give feedback as well. So, you know, that's part of my growth and something I will be working on. And but it's just interesting when you how different it is to reflect back on your own fixed mindset aspects and growth mindset aspects than when you mirror or what you see in other people.

Dr. Katie: 23:58

Well, and it's it's interesting too, because I think and I talked about this a little last week, you know, growth alone isn't enough. Like it has to have intention behind it. And I think when we're getting feedback, there has to be that. I mean, feedback is a gift when people do it well. That's true. And that's why when I do my trainings on feedback, I start with growth mindsets. I start with, you know, how do we approach things with a growth mindset and how do we fear things with a growth mindset? And so I think that's key to to all of this is, you know, what is that intention look like and how do we, what does growth mindset really look like for for everybody?

Speaker: 24:42

Absolutely. Yeah. And another thing that I'll say just quickly about growth mindset that I think can be easily well, that can be a little hard, honestly, is in today's society where we've talked about the 16 movies of information that come at us every day, that we get thrown at us every day, that comes along with seeing others' successes mostly. It doesn't come, most people are not vulnerable on social media and saying they're struggles, or if they are, it's really performative, I think. So it can be easy to go get into a fixed mindset when it comes to comparison. And as we know, comparison is the thief of joy. A fixed mindset person is going to always default to being jealous or comparing themselves in a way that is being threatened by other people's success. And if you have a growth mindset, I'm not saying that you're never going to be jealous, but what you do with that jealousy is I think it can be a source of feedback. What is it that you value or that you see that that person's doing that you want to be doing yourself or that you might not be doing or that you see or that you want to attain that it's a goal? And I think you can let it inspire you instead. So in that way, I think that's a great source of feedback. And if you twist that, so if you say, okay, instead of being threatened, how can I use this as something that then I want to go after? And that's it, it is difficult. Listen, we are geared towards comparison and being threatened. It's so much easier. But if we use it as something to say, okay, actually, I'm gonna put this on my vision board instead. I'm going to be inspired and I'm gonna do that instead now. That is such a great way. And that's something that people can take to put on their growth mindset list, I think.

Dr. Katie: 26:55

Yeah. Well, and it's so interesting because, you know, as you're talking, I'm thinking of incidents where, you know, my brain eventually is like, why not me? Why didn't they ask me? Why didn't they invite me? Why, why wasn't I a thought? And it's and your brain can go, well, you know, they don't think you're as good, or they don't like you, or they weren't impressed with you, right? And and it's all those things. And sometimes it's as easy as you know, who was in front of you, or maybe they have a specialty in some place. And so I sometimes will have to like pull myself back out and be like, it's okay, it's okay. There's enough for everybody, and that wasn't your door, or that wasn't your table, or that wasn't your opportunity, and that's okay. But sometimes, and especially, you know, as a woman trying to grow a business, there's definitely just times where people in my circle who I hold as very close advisors will ask someone to do something that I'm more than capable of doing. And then I have to be like, it's okay. It is okay. But sometimes it's so easy to think, well, why not me? Why didn't they ask me? And that gives me an opportunity to go to that person and get that feedback. Hey, that was so cool. You had Rhonda speaking of that. You know, the scenario I speak to, is there a reason why I wasn't considered? And oftentimes it's like, oh my gosh, I know you're busy or I know what's going on, or or something like that. And sometimes it's just that proximity bias. Sometimes we're too close to it to even be asked to do it. Right.

Speaker: 28:27

Or sometimes it's just, yeah, who knows? They thought that you had mentioned something and then you didn't, or they yeah, it's we don't even know. And if you don't ask, you're never going to know. But at the same time, like you said, there's so much for there's enough for everyone to go around. And I truly believe that if something doesn't come up for us, then that means that it we are meant to then go to a different path. As hard as patience is for me, that is absolutely the truth. So yeah, but that's part of that growth mindset as well.

Dr. Katie: 29:09

Yeah, yeah. And it's interesting because I mentioned my husband and Rob, I know you're probably gonna listen to this at some point. And I love you so much. But he has such a fixed mindset on some things, and it comes, it comes very honestly with him, and and he will recognize it and appreciate it. That's probably too big of a term, but recognize it at least. And so I always tell people if you're not ready for growth mindset, consider fixed or consider neutral mindset. So, and I know we kind of talked about this a little before, and Janice Scott introduced me to neutral mindsets. I had never heard of it, but Trevor Moeb wrote a book, It Takes What It Takes. Have you ever read that book? No, it's such a good book, it's such a good book, and I will say he wrote a second book, and it's a little hard to read the second book because he wrote it while he was going through cancer and then he passed away, and so you could feel the waves. It's not that it's not a good book, but it's just a very hard book to read because you wouldn't know that. But it takes what it takes. I've had my daughter read it because she's a golfer. And what I love about Neutral Mindset is he talks about the work he did with Russell Wilson when Russell Wilson was at with the Seahawks and when he was a really good football player. He was his kind of spiritual guru. Not gonna do a full commentary on why Russell Wilson's not as good as football anymore, but he talks about having a neutral mindset where you're never getting too high or too low. Um, and so this is really great for people who play sports or in activities. You know, you never get sorry, too far into this fixed mindset of okay, well, I overthrew the pass. And so what if I overthrow the next pass? Or, you know, what happens? And you never get too high, too, too far ahead of yourself of being here in football, like they were running before they caught the ball, or you know, they were they were already in action before they they did what they needed to do. And so it it keeps you at this neutral mindset. And so I always encourage people sometimes neutral mindset is the best mindset to be. Don't get too far ahead of yourself. Stay, stay where you are, be where your feet are. And so it's that neutral. What is the next step I need to take to get this done? What is the next thing I need to do? And so for some people, I'm like, just just try a neutral mindset before you go all the way into this fixed or into this growth mindset to get you out of fixed.

Speaker: 31:39

Yeah, on the last podcast you did, you said, what's the next right step? And I know that that is a term that a lot of people who are in recovery say because it's just the easiest, not the easiest, it's the most obtainable thing. What is my next right step? And I think that that is perfect for whatever mindset you have, because in today's world, like we started off this podcast with, sometimes that's all we can do. What's the next right step? That's all we can muster up.

Dr. Katie: 32:14

Yeah, I agree. I agree. And I ended last episode with some intentional practices, and I'd love to hear your thoughts on them. So I'll kind of just say them real quick, and then I would love to hear your thoughts. So one was the pause, actually before reacting, asking, you know, what's actually needed here, what's actually happening, then reframe this is happening to me and what can it teach me in the daily choice, which is the intentional action each day to align with your values and everything we've talked about. So I wonder your thoughts on those, or if there's other kind of intentional practices. I know you you talk about mindset a lot with people and in companies. So is there anything, any thoughts or any additions to that?

Speaker: 32:57

Well, the pause for me is, you know, getting out of your space, getting out of your head and into your hands. So doing things that either doodling, getting, I believe we've talked about it on the podcast before, anything where you can even just with fidgeting, getting having your brain circuit in a different way so that way you can think differently. There's a reason that people take walking meetings and why that works. So that's what pause means for me. The reframe, I think that that works in different states of mind. When you're really ruminating, that would be difficult. Like if somebody were to tell me, can you just reframe that? No way. If I was in a room, like when I was sick, absolutely not. Like I'm not gonna, and and if I had, let's say somebody would have gotten a job over me and I was sick like I was the last time. No, no, no. Uh I wouldn't have the the energy. But and then when it comes to what was the last one? I mean the daily choice. What are your actions? Well, I think yeah, the daily choice is the daily choice that we all have to make, which is how am I going to show up in the world today? And I was just listening to one of my favorite podcasts, which is it's called Las Culturistas. And shout out to my friends who are listening because I know that I have turned them on to that podcast, but it's it's Bo and Yang and his best friend Matt Rogers. And Bo and Yang was talking about how he was so he was emotional and he was talking about how he's so grateful to have worked at SNL and just having that opportunity. And he said, I just feel like I don't have a better word for gratitude or being grateful. And I feel like that word is so played out. And then Matt stopped him and said, Are you nuts? That word's not played out. Are you kidding? And that's totally true. I there's that is such a great word. If you have gratitude and are grateful for what is around you and what is presented to you during the day, not in a toxic positive way, but just, you know, in the quiet moments that you can have, that is a choice that you can make. And that absolutely helps with the growth mindset, I believe.

Dr. Katie: 35:34

Yeah, yeah. I think you're so right. And it's interesting because really growth mindset is these small actions. It's being consistent, it's creating them at minimum. And it's funny when you're talking about the reframe, because last semester at the end of the semester, my daughter was done, done, done. Like she had some heavy exams coming up, and and it just was a heavy time for her. She hadn't seen her boyfriend there, they are in different saying she hadn't seen him in a while. And I mean, she was just feeling the pressure, and she called, and I was getting ready to walk into a client session, and and I answer the phone, and and she really calls me. So I knew that either something was fantastic or something was wrong.

Speaker: 36:19

Yeah.

Dr. Katie: 36:19

And I I said, Hey, baby, and she said, Baba. Okay, okay, well, let's sit up straight in our car and figure out what's what's happening. And she was like, I just am overwhelmed. There's so so much. And she goes, and if another person tells me it's gonna be okay, I'm gonna punch him in the face. But you're right, you're right. There are moments where it's not a fixed mindset, it's just we're trying to process what is happening. We're trying to understand, we're trying to get our feelings right, we're trying to understand what's actually happened and is happening and is needed. And so that reframe takes takes time sometimes, especially when it's really heavy. Um so depending on on what we're going through, it's not going to be just a switch we can flip. I know in my hardest times, it was kind of like, okay, I'm gonna feel bad for a couple days because that's what I need. I need to process it and I need to understand why this bad thing happens, so then I can move forward with a growth mindset. And so that's not necessarily a fixed mindset. That's that's getting in touch and in tune with what's really happening.

Speaker: 37:33

Absolutely. I feel like we part of a growth mindset is allowing valid emotions and the absolute processing of emotions. You have to name it, you have to feel it, you have to process and whatever that looks like for you, because that's emotional intelligence, as you talked about on the last podcast. And that is then being able to even have a mindset. You you can't even have the intelligence enough if you haven't processed through your emotions.

Dr. Katie: 38:10

Yeah, yeah, I agree. I agree. Well, and so it's so fun as we're going into 2026. I can't believe it's it's here. And more importantly, when people hear us next time, you will have just had a birthday. Uh, which is so exciting, and then it'll be my birthday week. So we're currently in your birthday week, which is exciting. So yeah, I I love that that we celebrate the holidays and then we get to celebrate ourselves and each other right around that.

Speaker: 38:41

It's a great way to kick off the year, Capricorn season. Right.

Dr. Katie: 38:45

It is, it is. That's probably why we like each other so much, right?

Speaker: 38:48

Yeah, true.

Dr. Katie: 38:51

Well, I hope you have a wonderful birthday. You are fully celebrated. And yeah, I know you've got some fun family plans. I do too. I've got all kinds of fun stuff going on.

Speaker: 39:03

Yes, I can't wait to have our next session, our next talk. And I hope we all stay healthy.

Dr. Katie: 39:11

Oh, yeah, yeah. Let's wash our hands. But I don't know the people outside of Kans City. We should also say we just got our year in numbers um for 2025 and shout out Frankfurt, Germany. We want to know who's listening in Frankfurt because your second most listened to city. Who's there? Send us a note. We want to hear from you.

Speaker: 39:34

I want to hear from people. I think I know like friends of friends of friends that live there. So I don't know if they're listening, but or if it's people from LinkedIn, let us know. No, it's so fun.

Dr. Katie: 39:46

But we appreciate everyone listening and sharing. We always ask, you know, share the podcast if this resonates with someone that it would make sense to share with them. Please do that. Rate the podcast in in the platform that you listen. It helps us move the needle and then any any time that you can leave us some remarks or suggestions. We want to hear that too.

Speaker: 40:10

Absolutely. And we'll have more fun stuff in 2026. And I'm so excited to have another year with you.

Dr. Katie: 40:18

I am too. I am too. Well, and yeah, we gotta decide what we're gonna talk about next week. I just keep thinking we should talk about since it's closing of your birthday week and in the middle of my birthday week. I almost feel like we should do something like what I wish. I knew or what I would tell my former self, or I think we should do some of that. It'll help with our vulnerability and humility. Um we've learned. Yeah, let's do that. Okay. All right. Well, so tune in next week so you can hear about the mistakes that we have made and how we have used growth mindset to to be stronger.

Speaker: 40:54

Yeah, we'll have to pick like deaf different age groups that at this age and then at this age.

Dr. Katie: 41:02

That is perfect. That is perfect. Yeah. All right. Well, thank you everyone for listening and being with us this week. And we will talk to you next week on the path to leadership. Bye, everyone. Bye.