The Path To Leadership

Define Success On Your Terms

• Catalyst Development • Season 3 • Episode 6

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Success isn’t a finish line you cross; it’s a practice you live. We dig into what it really means to create your own path—beyond titles, paychecks, and other people’s expectations—and share the tools that make it doable day after day. Katie and Rhonda compare goals‑driven hustle with a values‑driven approach, showing how acceptance, integrity, relationships, legacy, and creativity can become a practical compass for leadership decisions when the pressure is on.

We talk candidly about burnout, comparison traps, and the loneliness epidemic at work, then pivot to what actually helps: daily habits that compound, creative expression as reflective practice, and community rituals that make people feel seen. You’ll hear a simple leadership philosophy framework, examples of behavior‑based goals that reduce stress, and low‑lift rituals like a daily gratitude reminder that strengthens relationships and morale. Vulnerability isn’t a brand; it’s a bridge—so we share real low points, how support networks show up, and how to use those moments to rewrite your definition of success.

If meditation or journaling isn’t your thing, try intentional experimentation: voice notes, sketching, crochet, walking reflections, or a visible “wins board” to track impact. For teams, borrow our favorite prompts: ask “How will 2035 us judge this decision?” and “What version of this work makes us feel most alive?” These questions spark better strategy and healthier output by reconnecting people to meaning. By the end, you’ll have practical steps to design success on your terms and help your team do the same—one aligned habit, one honest check‑in, one courageous choice at a time.

If this resonated, follow the show, share it with a friend who needs it, and leave a quick review to help others find us. Tell us: what value will guide you this week?


Book recommendation:  Project Unlonely by Dr. Jeremy Nobel

Follow us on LinkedIn www.linkedin.com/in/rhondajhale/ and https://www.linkedin.com/in/katieervin/

www.jolyean.com

www.katieervin.com

Measure what matters. Lead with purpose. Take the LEADERs Catalyst Index: https://katieervin.com/catalyst-score/


Theme music by Emma Jo https://emmajo.rocks/

Dr. Katie:

Welcome back to the Path to Leadership. I'm Dr. Katie. And I'm Rhonda Jolene Hale. We are so excited to have you back this week. Rhonda, how was Thanksgiving? Did you have a good, good one?

Rhonda Jolyean:

Oh my goodness. It was family-filled, fun-filled, too much food-filled. It was wonderful. How about you?

Dr. Katie:

Unfortunately, mine was not. It was food-filled. But I I my kids brought home all kinds of gunk from school. So I got to enjoy Ford Nights alone in my house while they went to Illinois to see the in-laws, which stinks, but we'll be back in Illinois for Christmas.

Rhonda Jolyean:

So it is the season, unfortunately.

Dr. Katie:

It is. Yeah. Well, and I'm so excited for our topic today. Because this is a topic that every time we kind of go into this, like we have so much to talk about. Because our our topic today is really creating your own path to success and what success looks like for other people. And it's it's different for everybody.

Rhonda Jolyean:

Absolutely. This is something that you and I have discussed, I think, since the beginning when we first met each other. And it's something that I think is really important to each leader to define for themselves, each employee. And I would love to hear your perspective and give a couple of nuggets about what I've seen.

Dr. Katie:

Yeah. Yeah. Well, and it's funny because I was, as I was preparing for this episode, I was really thinking about it. And I started really talking about this probably about three years ago. I was asked to speak to a class at Benedictine College, to a class of seniors graduating. And I was thinking of all the messaging that I should put together. And the biggest message when people ask me, you know, about, you know, what their career paths should look like, I'm like, well, you create your own path to success. Like what your parents, and I was, and I always like, please don't tell your parents I say this, but I mean, I think this as a almost 50-year-old woman, like my path to success looks different than your path to success, which looks different than, and so if we compare our paths, we're comparing titles and we're comparing, you know, how you got there and you're comparing paychecks. And that to me doesn't make sense. So my path to success is not about titles or dollars. Like I always tell people, yes, I would love to have 10, 10 million dollars in a bank account. That would be lovely. But if I'm not having positive impact on people, if I'm not leaving them better than how I found them, if I'm not able to just have like really positive, great interactions, to me, that's not being successful. And so to me, it's not about money or titles.

Rhonda Jolyean:

Yes. And when you say that, what it reminds me of is something that I talk about probably in every speech that I give. And that is values. No matter if you have a straight trajectory to your path on your path to success, or if yours is completely nonlinear, like mine and so many other people's, as long as you are aligned to your values, that is all that matters. And when you say leave it better than you found it, that was something that you and I connected on very early. That my father, who passed away young, when I was young, and he was very young, he was in the Boy Scouts of America. He was an Eagle Scout. That is something that they always said was leave everything better than you found it. And they mostly were talking about campsites and all very tangible things that they were talking about. But throughout the years, I've taken that, and a lot of leaders have taken that saying to mean leave people, ideas better than you found it. And what I realized is my father, who was an entrepreneur, he took his leadership and that saying to really mean caretaking. He took, yeah, he took care of people and ideas and cultivated them. And for me, value is so important that I try to align to his legacy, and the value of legacy is super important. So when you say, well, the path to success, your path to success won't look like mine, and vice versa, that is absolutely true, as long as you are aligned to your values. And one of my values is legacy, it's also creativity. I feel like no one is surprised by that. But that's what I want people to hear is you don't have to have a slogan or a saying or a word of the year. I know you're gonna talk about that later. But aligning to your values is something that you absolutely need to do to know if you are on the right trajectory.

Dr. Katie:

Yeah, yeah. It and I love that because I um always have people do a leadership philosophy, like what no matter the age, no matter what. And this is something I think we can go into in another session, but I love talking about aligning its values because this is the very first thing I do when I work with anybody, whether it be coaching clients, what it's the first of my leader session, it's the first of my supervisor 101 session, because it's who are you? What do you stand for? And then everything aligns. And so I just pulled mine up real quick. Oh, cool. So I can read it because I have mine, so it's it's I have people identify their values and then how are they going to live by it? But it's it's my values are acceptance, integrity, and relationships. Um, and so I say I believe in accepting people as they are and maintaining unwavering integrity and nurturing strong relationships. And then my word, my next words are open communication and growth. To achieve my philosophy, I've actively foster open communication by being transparent, authentic, and humble, being open to growth. And I encourage big thinking and risk taking, ensuring continuous growth for all. And then my final word is lead or phrase is lead by example. I aspire to always model the behavior I expect from my team. I am bold, speak up, and give them significant responsibilities and projects to help them develop. And so, yeah, aligning with who you are and and what you are, I think is so important.

Rhonda Jolyean:

Yeah. And when I think about you, all of those words come to mind. Growth, bold. When you said the thing about team, I'm not surprised that yours has the word team in it.

unknown:

Yeah.

Rhonda Jolyean:

And I think when you have a lot of people to understand the importance of values, and I get it, it's sometimes can be very ethereal and out there and vague. When you have a set of values, and I love going a step further with a leadership philosophy, when you have that set of values, it makes every choice that you make so much easier. Because as we've talked about before in other episodes, we have a thousand decisions, a thousand pieces of information coming at us all of the time. And so if you know what your values are, then it makes it so much easier to make those decisions. And by the way, I also agree it would be so cool to do a little mini episode on how to quickly choose your values. That's something that we can put on our ideas list.

Dr. Katie:

Oh, yeah, I love that. I love it. Well, and it's, you know, it's it's as we're talking about the definition of success, you know, it's such a cultural, I think, problem that, you know, it's I in talking about generations, I talk about generations all the time. And I always tease that, you know, our generation, you know, you just came in and you sat down, you shut up, you did the work, and you grumbled under your breath and you didn't say things out loud. But that's changed so much for good and some challenges. But the traditional path to what we used to think is success, like you work for a company for 40 years and then you get a pocket watch, and then you, you know, ride off into the sunsets, you know, and but that's just not that's not the way it is these days for most people. And so to think that the definition of success is achievement and productivity and status and title. And I I mean, I remember back early in my HR days where it was like titles were so clean and clear, and there was no deviation from titles. And then we got to a point where it was like, well, titles we're making up titles. And quite frankly, I think we've gone too far the other way on making up titles sometimes. Everyone's an architect. Yes, yes, everybody, everybody, you know, and it's I mean, but it just it now I when I work with people, I have to say people leaders because when they think about managers, we have people that manage projects and not people, which is great, but there's there's a difference in teaching skills to managers and people leaders. And so I just think, you know, that that is so different. And and the cost of focusing on the past is really that comparison traps, like my title doesn't equal your title, or you know, my my path doesn't equal your path. And that leads to stress and burnout and even losing sight of your own purpose of success.

Rhonda Jolyean:

I just spoke about this to a group of incredible female entrepreneurs talking about how burnout is due to our Western philosophy and probably even goal, global philosophy of success and alignment, and how we need to come up with a better definition of success, like you were talking about, because it is so goal-based. And what we need it to do is we need it to be values-based. So there is a lot of research about how if you have a goals-driven life versus a values-driven life, you are going to get burned out more. If you think about this, we say that we want to achieve X. So I want to make a million dollars by the time I'm 30. Spoiler alert, I didn't.

Dr. Katie:

Nor did I.

Rhonda Jolyean:

No, you're right, nor did most people. But if you want to make a million dollars by the time you're 30, okay, you made that million dollars. Well, you're going to want to achieve more after that. So then you have to set another goal, then another, then another, and you're gonna be constantly achieving more or needing to achieve more, is what our societal definition of success tells us. But if you live by a values-based life, like we were discussing earlier, for instance, mine is legacy and creativity, empathy, experimentation, all of those, then I have to say, well, is it enough? Is making a million dollars by the time I'm 30, what kind of legacy is that leaving? Sounds pretty selfish. So instead, what instead do I want to do daily to live to live a legacy-valued life, to live an experimentation-valued life, to live a more connected life for others and myself. And that is truly a better way of living because you're not re meeting this goalpost and then keep having to push the goalposts further. You can live a more purpose-driven life, if you will. And that's the type of life it's harder because social media, again, my favorite, tells us that we have to achieve all these milestones and have all these things to be successful and to be valuable. When the ironic thing is to have intrinsic value is to live a values-driven life. So that's what I want to live by is a values-driven life more than a goals-driven life. And if you take anything away from today, that's what I would have people take away, is to live more of a values-driven life than a goals-driven life.

Dr. Katie:

Yeah. And I think it's so interesting because that's been the script, right? Is that that goals, like what's our goals? We get to we're in December. We should start, you know, what are our goals for next year? And and it's, I know we're going to talk about this this month, but you know, I changed my goals from last year to really the behaviors. You know, it's it's one of those, what are those activities, what are those things? And so my word for the year was cultivate. And it's cultivating relationships, cultivating opportunities, and cultivating myself. And that was really about my values. It's the connections, it's about the meaningfulness, it's it's those kind of things. And I think that rewriting that script, really changing that, took the pressure off of me of, you know, what's the dollar sign that I want to hit this year? What's the, you know, what's the number of clients that I want? Like I have people ask me all the time because I've had such a, I'm so thankful. I've had such a great year for catalysts. And it's not been by spending each month focusing on numbers. It's been focusing on the values and behaviors that I said I was going to focus on this year. And it has flipped the script for me in every single way.

Rhonda Jolyean:

Yes. And I can attest to that, knowing what we've discussed personally between your past and what has happened to you this year. And just a note, it's not that we shouldn't have goals. It's just we should make decisions and we should live our life by our values and then define our goals by those values, but first define our life by the values. So it's it's very tricky. And also, you know, when we think about success, everybody's talking about the loneliness epidemic. We're talking about community and the need for redefining success through others outside of ourselves. This is super important. And I think when you think about outside of yourself, when you think about community, that then gives you that higher purpose, that greater purpose. And then success becomes a completely different, you have a completely different lens for success. One of my favorite books, favorite all-time books, is called Project Lonely. And it was written by Dr. Jeremy Noble. And I have written down some quotes because I wanted to get it right. And he talks about the importance of creativity when it comes to success and then connection and community. So he talks about creative expression, helps people gain insight into their feelings and experiences, and in doing so, fosters connection to oneself and to others. And he further states: being seen for who we truly are is one of the most powerful antidotes to loneliness. And when you think about what more, how more successful can you get than to be seen for your true self, to be connected to other people, and then to be valued for the person that you are, I think it doesn't get any better than that. And through that creative expression, again, that can mean anything that you enjoy doing that is expressing what you believe creatively. That's something that it not only helps intrinsically, but extrinsically too. So I just wanted to throw that in there and give that book recommendation.

Dr. Katie:

Yeah, and I totally, I totally agree. And and that comes from that self-awareness and knowing yourself and knowing all of who you are and where you want to go. So I love those those quotes. Those are perfect. Perfect. Well, and I think too, you know, we think about success as like this forward-facing, like long away, but really it's about daily practice, right? It's about what we do, these small little pebbles in a pond. And sometimes they're like boulders that we have the opportunity to throw in and have these ripple effects. But to me, it's like really these daily actions, these these interactions and how we go about them. And it's sometimes the the best success is these small shifts, as opposed to this like you know, earth-shattering day. To me, that's you know, it's it's how we practice it each day.

Rhonda Jolyean:

Yeah. First of all, I love that metaphor of the pebbles and the boulders. That's so beautiful. Um, I think too, when you are able to life is lived by habits, right? And I got that from the atomic habits of the book. So that's not something I came up with, unfortunately. But our life is lived by what we do today. And I think as leaders, we have the opportunity to activate hope and agency in our employees by imagining new ways of doing things and creating possibility. So if you can imagine being able to bring in new exercises, being able to divine success in a different way, coming up with values exercises for your people and living those daily, that would come up with a completely different way of helping your people output, talk about productivity and success in a more general Western way. That would help with that output and have that daily impact that we are discussing.

Dr. Katie:

Yeah, I agree. I agree. And I think so often too, we don't spend enough time in the the challenge or the adversity of it all. You know, when we when we're thinking about our our days and how how we're going through it, we're just trying to survive, right? So we don't pause sometimes to think about where we're at and success and values and who we are and everything that's going on. And I recently shared on LinkedIn and people are so kind, but I try to share the the low points as well. And it was really interesting because last November in 2024 was just probably one of the most difficult seasons I had had. I was dealing for with four with and for a family member that was horrible. It was a horrible situation. And then business was hard. And I was to this point where last November I was like laying in bed, like I don't know how I don't know how to get out of this. I don't know how to move forward. And I've I've never really been to that low point, but that caused me to do some real pause and reflection. And and I don't think people have to get to this extreme look point that I got to, but I'm thankful for that time because it allowed me to lean on the people that, you know, when everyone always says, if there's anything I can do, let me know. And it's like, I don't even know. I don't even know what I need. And so I had my husband and my kids and my community that said, I I don't know how to help you, but I'm here and let's talk and let's spend time together. And and got me to the point where I'm at. But it was in that low point that I was able to really focus on, yes, we catalyst was in a tough financial spot, but I had so much success last year. I had had in 2024, the amount of people that had graduated from my programs, the clients that I had, the engagements, the and so now that's what I focus on is not the dollar amount, it's the the connections, the people. And and that really helped me flip that script to oh my gosh, we have no money, to oh my gosh, look at all the people. And it was a I was able to remind myself of that.

Rhonda Jolyean:

First of all, vulnerability is so icky.

unknown:

Right.

Rhonda Jolyean:

So I applaud you for that. I think of it as the storm before the rainbow. So once you you got to that low point, which is very difficult for people to even be in and to sit in, and I hate discomfort. So I applaud you for that. The vulnerability is that icky, sticky, humid storm. Then there's the rainbow on the other side. You were able to, like you said, flip that script, understand the connection, understand what you were getting out of it. And honestly, the connection that other people, that connective rainbow, if you will, that other people felt to you. And we know we respond to people more when they are vulnerable. It just feels so gross when we're going through it too. And I applaud you for that because that is still something that I'm working through with my own lessons learned and business and failure as a four-letter word to me. And it shouldn't be because I even preach that it's not. But it is to be vulnerable, it is.

Dr. Katie:

It is hard. It is hard. And it's especially hard when people, you know, take advantage of it. I mean, there were people in that time, you know, it's you have the your circle of people that no matter what are going to be there for you. And then you have other people that are like not there for it, but it's also in that in that downtime that it's kind of a gift to realize, oh, okay, you were just here for the good times. Oh, okay, you were just here. That's good to know too. And I think it helps to flip that as well.

Rhonda Jolyean:

Well, and in that, it helps you with your values suss out the people that are gonna be your personal board of advisors, your personal cheerleaders, those types of people that align to those values or respect your values and align to that. For me, when I think about hard times, I automatically, because it's one of my values, have to lean on creative expression to get me unstuck.

Dr. Katie:

Sure.

Rhonda Jolyean:

That doesn't mean that's my immediate thought, but I naturally gravitate toward that. That's not for everyone. When people are unstuck, or when they or when people are stuck and they have a low point, that pausing that you're talking about is very important. And I think in Western culture, we monetize or we try to monetize that pause, that reflection. Meditate, but do it in this way that you pay me $39.99 or like that. For me, meditation never worked. I and again, I've spoken about this for a long time as a female identifying person, I didn't feel safe in my body. And I don't still to this day a lot of times. So to get calm and to try to think in my mind and to just not be distracted, it just didn't feel comfortable. I was never gonna get anything out of it, even as hard as I tried. For me, that meditative reflective state came in aesthetic engagement. And for to define that more clearly, that is taking anything, whether it be going to a concert, do doodling, doing a coloring book, knitting. For me, it's crochet, anything that makes you feel joyful and alive through aesthetic expression. That was my way of reflecting and being expressive. Even a perfect example, we're going through some tough times with one of my dogs who is my child. And yesterday I did some holiday crafts because I just was so emotional. And it takes me a second to remember that's what I do. Why am I drawn to that? Oh, this is my way of reflecting and processing emotionally. So, again, that's what I naturally do. But when it comes to leaders being stuck, you can turn towards meditation. Perhaps that works for you. Perhaps it works to journal. Oh my gosh, I cannot recommend that enough. I do feel like journaling, whether it be jotting down a note, jotting down full sentences, morning pages like Julia Cameron recommends. I feel like that does work for most people, being reflective in that way, or it's aesthetic engagement. So I anything that gets your brain thinking in a different way will help people get unstuck. A lot of people ask, well, can it be, does it have to be analog? No, I do think that analog is helps our brains think outside of the normal screen that we are used to in today's world. However, maybe it's talking to Siri or voice notes and writing down different ideas that you see around you and then coming back to those ideas and then jotting them down or putting them in an Excel spreadsheet that you want to keep. Any kind of thinking outside of your normal daily rhythm will help you to get on stuff, whether it be in an idea, in an emotion.

Dr. Katie:

Yeah. Yeah. And I think it's so important. I love how you talked about what works for you and what doesn't, because it's every that's success, leadership, everything. It it's our ours to define. It's it's who we are. And so it's funny because the first time someone recommended meditation to me, I was like, okay, I don't need any of this foo-foo stuff, right? And then I tried it and I I love it. I love it. I, you know, when I am stressed, I love it. When I can't sleep, I love it. Like just the box breathing and the calm and the it's great. Journaling. Speaking of monetizing, I have bought every journal, every like I just, but that's not me. And I keep thinking, well, it works so great for them. Why not for me? And it's that's not that's not who I am, that's not how I am, you know. So so it's interesting when we think about, you know, even just how we reflect on success. You got to find your way to do it. And what does that mean? And some people, you know, it's gonna be more of this internal conversation and relationship, you know, of looking in. And there's other people that want to do it with others. And, you know, let's talk about it and do it that way. And so it's really interesting when you think about, you know, how what's the best way to do it? Well, here's how we've done it, but there might be ways to do it better for you that fit fit you and your personality and and your behaviors better.

Rhonda Jolyean:

I think the key there is intentional experimentation. And we've talked about this before, where you have to be open to trying it. So if journaling doesn't work for you, maybe it's the voice notes, maybe it's collaging. I know for me, when it comes, I have to be able to easily see some of what I have done in the past year. So even though I journal every day, that doesn't say to me, Rhonda, you've actually done anything. It's I have to see, oh, you did this creative project, you spoke at this. So I have to see, and it's usually in colorful markers, you know, and I see it and I usually put it away. For other people, maybe it's having a conversation with a friend, or it doesn't have to be anything big, you just have to try different things. And I think the word I I throw around the word intention a lot of the time because if we're not intentional about our lives, then really what are we doing? So I would just encourage people to intentionally experiment with what works for you.

Dr. Katie:

Yeah, yeah. And and I tried to do the everyday and it just didn't work for me. So I do have end of the month reflection. And so, you know, it goes back to my word cultivate. I actually just posted, so we're recording this on December 1st. You'll get this December 2nd, but I posted at the beginning of each month. I post on LinkedIn, it's accountability for me, but it's also, you know, show sharing my growth and my success and things like that. And it's not for people to look at it and be like, oh, I didn't do that this month. It's no way that's my definition of success. And so I put on there like last month, the weather was so beautiful in November. I got to play golf with my girlfriend Kelly. I got

Rhonda Jolyean:

to you know have some great dinners with girlfriends and and that's the the connection point for me so i do the reflection of of business stuff but also my personal success is is there too and i think it just really helps me just keep moving forward on you know what and it and it also grounds me in my definition of success yeah and i love that you do that i don't think i do that as much and that's my personal preference just like i don't do a word a year but that works for you and i respect that and i love that and i can't wait to hear what your word is for 2025 yeah and i think that goes back to meaning making i think it goes to we as leaders have to understand how we're gonna make meaning and our brains really respond to neurally and there's been science behind this that meaning making is the brain's way of restoring clarity and connection between all of our ideas and so for you it's being able to connect perhaps different uncertainties in your life by reflection connecting to words are very important for you words are important for me in certain contexts when I'm trying to understand myself and my why personally and in business it's more yeah words are important but it's more visuals that are important to me. So and you again have to do a lot of intentional work to understand this but it's really the meaning making the brain helps us stitch stories together and you have to do that experimentation to stitch those stories together to help your brain you can't just I mean some people can sit there and think but when you're talking about yourself as a leader and that intentionality at work or helping your team you're definitely going to have to do some workshopping of what's going to be activities to help tell this story. What is our vision going to be what do we need to do to get there because your employees are going to need that direction to help their brains think in a different way.

Dr. Katie:

Yeah oh I I completely agree. I I do well and you know as we're getting ready to wrap up I really think you know we're I cannot believe we're in December that is so crazy as it's snowing here it's so beautiful. But I really think next our next week we should talk about you know how we whether it be your word of the year or goal setting or I really think that should be our our topic for next week as so people have a couple weeks in in December to think about it. And even not everyone does this reflection time in December. They do it other times so so I have some stories about that as well that we can talk about next time.

Rhonda Jolyean:

I would love to hear that and I would like to discuss what I do because it's not something that people generally do. But I think as leaders we need alternative ways to connect to and intentionally experiment with because again we can't just put you know meditate we can't have all of these ways and just think oh these are my only options and I think there's a lot of new things coming out not monetized that we can tack you know tactics and tips that we can help people with.

Dr. Katie:

Yeah yeah I love it. So as we're wrapping up today did we miss anything?

Rhonda Jolyean:

Is there any nuggets that we didn't cover well I think there's a couple of things that I think that people with in leadership you can think about if you're working on something and from a creativity perspective an innovation perspective these types of questions really help me to get unstuck whether I'm thinking about myself or my team I love and this goes back to my legacy value I love to think about what would future me think about this decision or you can use this with your team what does our future team want for you know what would we think about this decision or this strategy in 2035 or whatever. And then that would be really interesting to play for each team member to say well future me believes in innovation future me believes in strategy or empathy or creativity and then for each one to then think about and and have that meaning making that storytelling stitch together of how what you're doing today is going to influence that future making so that's one thing. And then another thing for the present is and this is for everyone I like to ask myself is this work that I'm doing today, what version of this work would make me feel most alive so there are things that we have to do that are boring. The path to say and I and I talk to younger employees about this people that I mentor there's just things that we're always going to have to do. Now hopefully AI will help out with some of that but there's always gonna be expense reports and there's you know for us entrepreneurs taxes are the worst and budgets and things like that. And so it's how can I for me it's how can I make this the most fun or how can I make this mean something or how can I make this valuable I'm also growth is one of your values I also like to learn and experiment. And so I try to think of it as a learning expedition even though I hate it. So I think about you know what would make me feel most alive when I'm doing my taxes you know or maybe I have a fun snack because fun is super important to me. That type of thing. So just little little suggestions to help people when you're thinking about your path to success. And that harkens back to your daily habits. It's not just about the big picture it's really about what we're doing daily because all we really have y'all is time and that's something we cannot get back.

Dr. Katie:

Yeah yeah and I think you know it it's to me success is not a destination. It's not like okay I'm successful here plant a flag it's done it's it's the things that we do it's the impacts big and small it's that daily daily grind it's the daily work it's the things that you know the the path that we're we're laying and you know I think fortunately or unfortunately I mean we can't really define whether we've been successful until the end of our life it's it's the reflection of you know people looking back and saying you know this is the impact this person had or this is the you know and and money is super important to some people and that's okay. It doesn't mean you're a bad person at all. But you know it's what is your definition of success and then did you get there and and what does it look like? Because I can't imagine you know 30 year old Katie being like I'm I'm successful I'm done now let's let's stop or or you know as I reflect on 50 you know what what does success look like in the next part of my journey and it's you know it's really creating that own path being intentional. I love all the creativity and really making those connections and making that difference. I think that's so important.

Rhonda Jolyean:

Mm-hmm yeah wealth can be a value you just need to know why it's a value and then you need to make intentional decisions around that. Yeah.

Dr. Katie:

Yeah well and so homework I think people really need to think about what is their personal definition of success. We would love to hear from people right what it what do they define success? Also I encourage people to share a story with someone who impacted them this week. So part of my cultivate which is cultivating relationships and cultivating myself every day on my calendar at 430 is a reminder that is gratitude and reflection. It pops up seven days of the week and whoever pops in my head I will send them a random note and be like hey you popped up during my reflection today just want to let you know and some people it's it makes sense I just seen them we had just spoken it's easy. But other times it's hey we haven't talked in quite a while and you popped in my head and the notes I get back which is like oh my gosh you don't realize I needed this you don't know we don't the universe is trying to tell us something and we don't always understand why. And so that has been a really cool thing this year for me to do to to do that. So I encourage you to share a story with someone of how they've impacted you. I think it it really helps I just got the chills I love that so much.

Rhonda Jolyean:

I'm gonna steal that I'm gonna steal that that's so fun and it connects us. We are lonely we have loneliness epidemic I love it and it's so easy.

Dr. Katie:

Yeah I love that yeah yeah so well and so as we wrap up remember people please subscribe to the podcast it really helps us grow and you know be like Rhonda's mom and leave us a review.

Rhonda Jolyean:

Thank you Rhonda's mom we love you how many times can we uh yeah thank her yes and leave your values too I'd like to see people's values we will do a quick how to define your values episode coming up soon and reach out please be a part of the conversation and if you want a shout out let us know who you are and we can give you a shout out on the pod.

Dr. Katie:

Yeah we would love to we would love to so all of our LinkedIn information is in the show notes show description so you can connect with us on LinkedIn send us messages but also encourage you to share this podcast if you think that it would help someone that they need to hear what we talked about please share it with them because we would love for them to hear it. So Rhonda thank you for your patience as I was sick last week it's so good to to see you and to have this conversation I appreciate you so much.

Rhonda Jolyean:

I'm just so glad you're better and you always have an impact on me and I am always so grateful for you.

Dr. Katie:

So yay yay well our conversation next week will be fun as we talk about how we set intentions goal setting you know whatever whatever it is we'll we'll talk about a bunch of those different options in the next episode and so we just thank you all for joining us on this week's path to leadership remember leadership is a journey keep walking your path with purpose and heart thank you so much for joining us today and we'll talk to you next time on the path to leadership bye everyone bye

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Dr. Katie Ervin

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