The Path To Leadership
Leadership isn’t a destination—it’s a journey. On The Path to Leadership, Dr. Katie Ervin brings her research, real-world experience, and signature no-fluff style to help you grow into the leader you want to be. Each episode offers practical tips, powerful tools, and authentic conversations with leaders from all walks of life.
Whether you’re managing a team, building a culture, or stepping into your first leadership role, this podcast is your guide to leading with purpose, clarity, and confidence.
Because leadership isn’t about titles—it’s about impact.
The Path To Leadership
Leading with Intention with Mark Stewart
Ever wonder what happens when a leader intentionally designs workplace culture instead of letting it evolve by chance? Mark Stewart, President and CEO of Agriculture Future of America (AFA), reveals the transformative power of "culture by design, not by default" in this enlightening conversation.
Mark's leadership journey began with closed doors that ultimately guided him to his purpose. "The reason I am where I am today is because of at least two or three doors that were shut," he reflects, offering a refreshing perspective on professional setbacks as redirections rather than rejections. This philosophy has shaped his approach to developing both organizational culture and future leaders.
The heart of our discussion explores how Mark revolutionized AFA's culture through qualitative research with team members, identifying frustrations and desired behaviors. Rather than settling for abstract "values," he implemented action-oriented "lived behaviors" reinforced through regular recognition and celebration. This systematic approach ensures culture remains active rather than merely aspirational—a blueprint any organization can follow.
We dive deep into what truly motivates Generation Z professionals. Beyond the stereotypical desire for rapid advancement, Mark suggests they simply need visible growth pathways: "They have the drive and ambition. They just need help understanding what the pathway could look like." Organizations that invest in showing these developmental progressions gain significant advantages in talent retention.
The conversation culminates with a passionate discussion about helping young people discover suitable career paths earlier, particularly in agriculture where perception often doesn't match exciting reality. Mark's insights reveal how industries, educational institutions, and organizations like AFA can create experiential learning opportunities that showcase diverse career possibilities before students make significant educational investments.
Whether you're building organizational culture, managing diverse generations, or helping others navigate career pathways, this episode offers practical wisdom for creating environments where leadership flourishes. Listen now and discover how intentional approaches to culture and development can transform your organization.
Learn more about Agriculture Future of America at https://www.agfuture.org/
Connect with Mark at https://www.linkedin.com/in/mark-stewart-86958b9/
Follow Catalyst Development on LinkedIn @catalystdevelopment and @drkatieervin
www.katieervin.com
Measure what matters. Lead with purpose. Take the LEADERs Catalyst Index: https://katieervin.com/catalyst-score/
Learn more about Supervisor 101 at www.cdleaders.com/supervisor101
Theme music by Emma Jo https://emmajo.rocks/
Hi everyone, welcome back to the Path to Leadership. I am really excited for this new season and super excited for my guest today. We're going to go into kind of how we know each other and the work we've done together, but before I do that, I want to welcome him to the podcast. Hey, mark, how are you?
Mark Stewart:Excellent. Katie, thanks for having me on. I'm excellent.
Dr. Katie:Katie, Thanks for having me on. Good good Well, and before we jumped on and hit record, we were talking like it feels like we've known each other for years, but it's really only been about three years since we first met.
Mark Stewart:Yeah, kind of crazy, and I think you've made reference to this in some prior episodes and I've talked to a lot of people about it. In some respects it feels like time is a blur and in other respects it feels like it's been forever, so not ironic that it felt like it's been longer than three years, but it's actually longer than every time.
Dr. Katie:Well, and it's been so great since we met because I love the work you do and everyone that works with you. So can you introduce yourself who you are, what you do, all that good stuff.
Mark Stewart:Sure, and only because it's a jab to you. I am a proud Bearcat from Northwest Missouri. I do love the color green and you do too, so you might as well be a closet Bearcat fan, even though you are a hardcore gorilla fan. Nevertheless, I did find Northwest, ironically because of sports. I do obviously appreciate my education there, but got my bachelor's and my MBA at Northwest. I played football and ran track up there. That's kind of how I found Maryville back, when it was a two-lane highway and I was wondering where the heck we were going.
Mark Stewart:I do have the pleasure of serving as the president and CEO of Agriculture Future of America, or AFA. We are headquartered here in Kansas City, but we work with college students and kind of early career professionals all over the country. And a little bit about us. We really focus on three things Skill development, or you could say competency development, soft skills, human skills, people skills, whatever you want to call them that. The second is around the development of your professional network, which we would say is your personal asset, as valuable to you as anything you'll ever own. And then the third is either career exploration for college students or career enhancement for professionals, but again kind of in that vein of competencies or soft skills. That's essentially what we do and we're basically a national convener in those two spaces and have built a pretty good reputation by word of mouth, you know, putting on high quality experiences and that sort of thing.
Mark Stewart:Industry appreciates what we do by convening top talent with college students and developing them and preparing them for career and getting them connected with employers, etc. So anyways, that's a little bit about AFA, without getting too into the weeds. I'd be remiss if I didn't say I'm coming up on 20 years of marriage to my wife Megan, four daughters or anyone that wants to give me a little bit of grace or send me some Venmo cash, it can be used. Daughters' ages range from 17 to 10 right now. So busy, busy life.
Dr. Katie:You're in the heat of the battle when it comes to raising kids. Well and I wasn't going to bring up that you're a Bearcat. I was fighting every part of my body not to give you a hard time, but it is sure fun right now, as the gorillas are dominating, for me to be able to send you side text messages when we win games.
Mark Stewart:Yeah, that's okay, I'll take it. I'm a pretty good sport. Irony is, yes, we have been not up to our standards from when I was there, but my old teammate, the quarterback that I played with I was a receiver just took over as the head coach at Northwest, so we'll see what happens.
Dr. Katie:So that's a warning shot. I'll temper myself.
Mark Stewart:I don't know. You never know.
Dr. Katie:Well, and I was really excited because you all had an amazing basketball coach and I was really excited when he got hired away. I had a good friend at another university and he was a finalist for them and I texted her and said please hire him, please get him out of the MIAA.
Mark Stewart:He had a really good year at Drake and then got snatched up by Iowa already, so he's definitely on the rise. Another irony I used to play pickup basketball against him in Merrittville because he was, I think, a GA at the time, a graduate assistant for the basketball team, because he played at Northwest as well.
Dr. Katie:So anyways, Credit year for his basketball skills, Please, no. Well, and I love the work you all do and especially I've been so fortunate to work with your staff and your students and some of your early career and programs you're doing for industry and just thinking about kind of your career journey, can you talk a little bit about that journey and then what you learned throughout the career that informs how you lead today?
Mark Stewart:I'll answer those two things differently. The first part of it is about the journey. I won't tell you the full story, but essentially the reason I am where I am today is because of at least two or three doors that were shut. And I can vividly remember the first one, which is kind of the least significant, but it was one that I was absolutely certain I was going to get because I had worked there for several years. The job got offered to somebody else and when the director called me to tell me he said he picked her over me because she had a master's, even though I had several years of work experience directly for that organization. And I hung up the phone, I remember thinking there's got to be a reason. You know, normally I think I would have been pissed Like how dare them, you know, give it to her or me when I work there? But for some reason I still remember that. Anyways, that was the very first and it's what led me to my master's. It's the reason I got into fundraising. Fundraising is the reason I ended up getting my doctorate because of a supervisor I had there, up getting my doctorate because of a supervisor I had there.
Mark Stewart:The connections along the way were all the doors that opened when another one shut. It's just kind of fascinating. But there were two or three of those specifically around my career journey that, if that's insightful to anyone listening, I would say when those moments happen, figure out what that moment is telling you. It's telling you there's an opportunity. This isn't right for you. It sounds like a warm and fuzzy. That's not really what I'm intending to do. It's just I'm living proof of the fact that that happens. You just have to kind of get out of your own anger to figure out what's next for you. So that's kind of one of the simple things that I would say around my journey is it's a series of those, and one of them was the greatest blessing ever, because it's the reason I even ended up at AFA. It's something that I really thought I wanted to do. It was back in higher education leading an advancement office. The president even wanted to hire me and two of his board members thought I was too young and inexperienced and they just said, no, we're not comfortable with this. And a week and a half later I met with the executive here at AFA, was hired at AFA. Anyways, I won't belabor it further, but it's just that there's a reason, and it sucks to hear that, especially in the moment.
Mark Stewart:The other thing, that the other part of the answer that I would give you around, what shaped leadership for me was kind of a couple things, and I'll use some specific examples. One of them was an early boss and mentor. I think the way he phrased it was nobody's irreplaceable. Or, said simpler, everyone's replaceable. And you know, I played sports all the way through college. I like to think I had a pretty decent workout with a good team member and all the things.
Mark Stewart:But sometimes that can be a little bit of a grounding when you need it. You might chalk it up to humility. It's not really that. It's really just this notion of you know, I think I'm hot stuff, I think I'm really valuable here, but anybody can replace me. And stuff I think I'm really valuable here but anybody can replace me, and so you know kind of being, you know, focused on. There's always more to do, there's always more to learn, you can always contribute more, no matter how good your performance has been in the past. So that's one thing that I would say has kind of shaped me. The other is I think we may talk about this a little bit if we transition into culture eventually.
Mark Stewart:But another one of my previous bosses and mentors hired me at another institution. About six months in I got called from a consultancy that shouldn't have known who I was but it was, without telling you all the details. Was kind of like a dream gig. So six months in I'm going back to this guy that I really look up to and tell him I wasn't looking for this. It came along what you know. What should I do? What advice would you give me? And, like a true mentor, you know, are they gonna handle, you know all your travel.
Mark Stewart:They're gonna help you with, you know, finishing your doctorate, all the things it, it wasn't you know, obviously it was depressing to him to have to lose me after a short time, and so I say that to say in a position now where I can have some influence on culture and share that as an example. Wouldn't it be nice if we didn't tiptoe around things that we were unhappy about in the workplace and when opportunities come our way, we have the trust and the relationship with our supervisor to be able to say, hey, this came up, I'd love to talk about it with you. Instead, what happens is we don't talk about any of that stuff and then they come in and they say I'm taking another job, here's my letter of resignation. And I can tell you two specific examples here at AFA people, two different examples of people that I love and respect and I'm great friends with still today. One did that and you know, and we had a conversation about, like you know, why couldn't we have this discussion and you share with me and I would have wanted to help you think through all the things.
Mark Stewart:And then the other example was you know, we do say interviews here, so it wasn't a surprise. I mean, this person had an itch, an itch that I was trying to help feed, but eventually the day was going to come, and so wasn't surprised. We had a lot of productive conversation about all the things they hadn't said yes yet. So they had a couple of opportunities and we got to talk about what would be better. And I don't know, I just I don't know why that's so taboo. But your question was what has shaped your leadership? And that moment when I went to my boss and said, hey, this came up and he helped me think through it before I ever accepted the job, is something I guess I've always desired and didn't realize doesn't really exist, at least that I've never experienced. And so that's what I hope we can do here. I'm sure it will never be perfect, we'll never get there, and but but wouldn't it be nice if we had that open and honest relationship, you know, in the workplace, where we spend the majority of our living time?
Dr. Katie:Yeah, yeah, I think you're so right and there's so much of that that stands out is, as you're talking, it's like my head is screaming and it's like stop, stop. But the listening to the universe you know, and I'm a true believer, that the universe sets the path for you and you know it could be fluffy or woo-woo or whatever, but there's times, you know, when a door closes or slams on you, that you have to have that calm to say, okay, where am I supposed to be? What's supposed to happen? And having that growth mindset can be a challenge in the moment. But to be like, okay, what's my opportunity? Why am I supposed to go this way? I think it's really powerful and, like you said, you can have hurt feelings or be mad or, you know, insert emotion here. But getting past the emotion and being like, okay, where am I supposed to be?
Mark Stewart:Yeah, well, again, if it can be a call to, to remember, that's the one thing to remember for anyone listening that might be early in their career and is going to have those moments Again. I had several of them and I would say that this is the greatest job I've ever had. And I would say that this is the greatest job I've ever had, and it wouldn't have happened had not that last door, in particular, shut on me.
Dr. Katie:Yeah, yeah, well, and I love your view on culture and how important it is, and, as you were talking about having your boss be so supportive, and it takes me back to when I was 22 and I was in a job interview for my very first HR job and you know, this guy said before he asked me what my five-year goal was, he said my goal for you, if we were to hire you, is we're a small department, there's three of us. There's not room for you to grow in this organization, but my goal for you is that I give you the skills and the training that you will leave and lead your own HR department, that you will be confident enough to do that. And I thought, gosh, I want to work for him so bad, because he knows that growth is part of it and my doctoral research on motivation, growth is a piece of that. Like, people want to grow and they want to have connections and that's so important. Yeah, yeah Well, let's go into culture, because it is something that you value so much, and you talk a lot about culture by design, not by default.
Dr. Katie:I've heard you say that before. So what does that really mean to you and how does that apply at AFA? What do you do?
Mark Stewart:Yeah, I'll tell you a story to tee it up and then I'll describe it all for you. I can't take credit for the phrase of a friend of mine and somebody that we've done some work with and that I confided in when I wanted to lean into some of this work, is that you know that was a phrase that he uses. He may have borrowed it from somewhere else, but nevertheless it's. What everybody talks about today is intention, and so that's basically what it means. The story is, you know, a number of years ago, had you know, several team members leave, and certainly I care about attrition and retention and all the things I wouldn't say. It's the thing that keeps me up most at night because, at the end of the day, we're a small nonprofit organization and so there's only so much of our mobility and so. But there's something about a few people leaving within a period of time just kind of made me step back and start thinking. There was something alarming about who left and why they left. It was more of a I don't know why. That was the light bulb moment, it just was and it just got me to thinking. So, just rewinding a little bit more, I started here in a specific role. I was part of a succession process where I was able to the opportunity to take over after the founding executive of the organization. Well, in that process we just kind of business as normal. You know we just if I had been hired from the outside, there probably would have been a different feel, we probably would have done some things a little bit differently. But I had already been here a number of years and so when that light bulb moment happened, part of the realization was, you know, we just kind of been shoving that along and doing business the way we always done business. I mean sure, we made some changes here and there and you know little things, but it was in that moment that I started to think really hard about, you know, what is our culture? Is that in some way shape or form to play for why people stay longer than they might otherwise, or whatnot, even though there were no specific signs pointing to that?
Mark Stewart:All that to say, I kind of jumped into old qualitative research or mixed method research. I guess you could say a little bit. But part of what I did and let me start with this before I get into the tactical approach that I took I didn't know what the hell I was doing. I suppose there's people that are masters in culture building and whatnot. That was not me. I had not been formally a part. I've been in all sorts of cultures. Most of them we didn't talk about it. I don't know that there was a lot of intention given to many of them. I didn't think or realize any of that until I started doing this work myself. But I just needed to start with. I didn't know what the hell I was doing, which is why I called the friend that used the phrase.
Mark Stewart:You know, culture by design, not by default, and it's just the notion that if you don't do anything about it, it's just going to happen the way it is and it may be good, may be bad. You just have no idea, but it's going to be what it's going to be and it's just going to take over. Or you could be intentional and design it. You know it won't be perfect by any means, but it'll be better than just letting it happen by chance. And so I actually took an opportunity to visit with every team member over a course of I don't know a few months and kind of dove into two questions. One was you know what's most frustrating about the way we do work here and your specific role and the other was more around. You know, what do we permit and what do we promote. So what do we allow to happen and what are the things that we celebrate in the way we do work together? And out of that, came up with, I don't know, maybe about a dozen themes you know, if you're using qualitative research, just things that seem to come up a lot and then did an offsite with my leadership and said you know, here are the themes, let's dig into this a little bit. And we came down with a list of six or seven initially.
Mark Stewart:Well, what I wanted to be called something other than values, because I don't love that term, because I think it means something different to a lot of people and in some cases it's very shallow for people. So, and I wanted it to be action oriented, I wanted to be kind of rooted in the notion that it's behavioral and it's. It's an action, it's you can describe it, it has a emotion to it, and so we settled on the idea of lived behaviors, and so that's what we practice at afa. It's where it came from. We've modified over time what those are, but there's kind of three things, as I've tried to play this out to other people who were curious about the process. One, we had to define it Like what is use words to define what it is that you're after in culture building. That has to be something that's action-oriented, which I just referenced.
Mark Stewart:We landed on the term behaviors. You can use values, that's fine. They just they need to be able to understand and see them in action, if you will. And then the final part is this whole notion of recognizing and kind of repeating. So recognize doesn't have to be, you know, awards it can be, but you know, in some way, shape or form you have to bring, in our case, behaviors to life repetitively in a lot of different settings for it to take hold. So if you just stop with words, you're like, hey, this is our new culture, these are our values, blah, blah, blah, and you didn't have any of the actions or the recognitions to follow it up and the repetition to go along with it. It just it's, it's just all words. And so, anyways, I'm sure everyone's had an experience like that. That's a little bit of how we built it, and again, we continue to revisit and modify. We incorporated some working genius language. So that's a Patrick Lencioni tool. I know you're familiar, but for those on the it's more of a productivity assessment or a working style assessment, not a personality assessment. And so we worked some of that language into our behaviors.
Mark Stewart:We review them before every staff meeting and we celebrate people within the behaviors. They don't have to be all shout outs within the behaviors, but that's. We pull up the graphic like that's how we start our meetings. We do that weekly, every quarter we do. We call it the goat of lived behaviors. So, greatest of all time, we have these kind of chain medals, these little gaudy medals. So every quarter somebody that received it the prior gets to award it to another team member and share why they believe they embody our behaviors. And then every year, every year, we do a nomination process where I take nominations from every team member and we do a larger kind of perpetual award. And again it doesn't just have to be celebration type thing, but that's kind of the way the process that we went through and the way it's lived out here at A-Bad anyways.
Dr. Katie:Yeah Well, and I love all of that because you know, as you had mentioned, like it can't just be words on paper or a poster. I was talking to someone the other day and he showed me a T-shirt. He was like, look what our T-shirt says. He was like and we're not living this, it's just words. Then it becomes a joke. I used to work for an organization that every year they had a word of the year and would put up posters every year and then it was. Those behaviors never, never showed up and and I love that you all do that work and and that investment in that work is so critical and it shows in your team how everyone cares for each other and cares for the work that you do.
Mark Stewart:Well, we started off with an advantage because we are a non-profit and, generally speaking, people that go to work for nonprofits care about the mission and care about you know, service orientate, have a service orientation anyways. So just to be clear, we already had an advantage in that way, but still, you can work for a non-profit and have a crappy culture. Oh yeah, I've been there and so again, maybe the one thing that I can say to tie it all up is I am a big Lencioni fan. I actually first got introduced to his work in my doctorate program on the five dysfunctions of a team. But I think the reason I really like his work is because most of it is simple. Most of his books are fable based, so it tells a story and you can see yourself or your organization through that prism. Even if we're not a drive-through Italian restaurant, I still understand how to drive employee engagement. That's one of his books, teaser. So it's simple. Usually it's only a few things that you focus on as the outcomes and it's relatable. And so all that to say one of the first professional development things that I did early on when I was at AFA.
Mark Stewart:He didn't do a lot of public speaking then, but I found an event there. I got a communication about an event he was doing in California which he had opened up to register, and so I went out there and I heard his story of why he got into the work that he does. And I, I went out there and I heard his story of why he got into the work that he does and I'll be brief, but I think it's relevant here. He tells a story about working for a consultancy where they were, you know, working with certain departments within a big company to help them solve some problem. Right, and after a day of work they you know days of work they presented their findings to this department. And I'm summarizing but basically we're told this is great, appreciate it, we don't need anything from here, we just needed this to contradict the other department over there and what they're doing, or whatever, something like that. And they you know this team of consultants which he's the junior of they walk out in the parking lot and he says to his colleagues hey, shouldn't we do something about that? Yeah, and so, like that's where his passion started. And when they started the table group which is his consultancy, he thought he shared in this speaking engagement, he thought all the people that would flock to them would be the dysfunctional organizations, and what he ended up finding is it's mostly a lot of the high performing organizations that want to do this work, that invest in the time to do it better, and so I share that, only to say I love his work.
Mark Stewart:It's simple, it's relatable, but most of what he talks about, even though it sounds extremely simple, is extremely hard. So this idea of changing culture or influencing culture in some ways I could lay out you know the way that I went about. It Sounds simple. At the end of the day, it's uncomfortable, it's hard. Probably some people listening to this will have to admit they don't know what the hell they're doing If this is something that they want to do. I had to do that and get over it, you know. So all those sorts of things, and it's just. You know you got to have the willpower and the, you know, the willingness to to lean in anyways. Just that was all relevant there.
Dr. Katie:Yeah, I love it all and I I know we bond so much over Patrick Lencioni. I mean, I am a Patrick Lencioni fan. People that do six-month and one-year programs with me have a drinking game every time I say Patrick's name. Yeah, I'm a huge fangirl of everything he does and so much of the work I do is because of what I've learned from him, and even my book is modeled. I love the way he writes. But I work with organizations all the time and, just like you said, like I tell people, you're not special. Like everybody has people challenges and process challenges and you know industry challenges and all that. What makes organizations unique is the work they do and that growth that they're willing to do to get them to a better place and they're willing to invest. And those are the best clients for me and because they're like, we know we're not great and we know we need to do it, but we just need to. We've got to invest in the work and I think it's critical to have success in organization when you do that work.
Mark Stewart:Yeah, agreed yeah.
Dr. Katie:Well and I love and I'm super biased towards Generation Z One because I have the case studies in my house. I'm 21 and 23 year old, but also I'm so fortunate working with the NAIA and their student athletes and then working with the AFA students. I've been so fortunate to present to some of your conferences and I'm just curious, with the work that you all do about developing the next generation, what do you see as some of the most critical leadership skills for young professionals these days? What do they need?
Mark Stewart:Yeah, well, first, I would share that we're in a unique position as a nonprofit. I mentioned where national ones go. Although we're headquartered in Kansas City, we work with students all over the country. The unique thing is they don't they have to apply or engage in some way with us. They have to go to some effort. It's not something that you sign up for or register for, and it's not a club or organization that you're a member of. So I share that, just because there's some uniqueness to what we do and who we work with.
Mark Stewart:The other interesting thing about us is that we sit in this unique spot between young people that are, you know, engaging in our experiences. Collegiate professionals could be deans, associate deans, career services folks, et cetera, who are interested in, you know, getting students engaged with us, us supporting their students, et cetera. And then, finally, industry, who, I mentioned earlier, values what we're doing because we're convening some top talent. They want to get them to come work for them, et cetera. But they also are big supporters of what we do as a nonprofit. We need funding to make it all work. So we're in this unique position that we get perspectives from all of those audiences. That's my main point. So, that being said, every few years or so we will do a little bit of re-evaluation of what are the skills and competencies that we're focusing on and what's changed or needs to change about preparation, based on what industry is looking for. There was a day when we had about 21 competencies that we focused on. It's a lot. I heard one of your prior guests mention like 80.
Mark Stewart:Well, we kind of bubbled it into six categories and it's pretty common that from any given year, somebody will touch something that touches one of these six buckets. So this is the way we phrase them. So cultural EQ, interpersonal IQ, career management systems, thinking, collaboration and relationship development. You heard me say earlier around this notion of your network as a personal asset. So there's a big part of relationship and people management, relationship management.
Mark Stewart:That is what we preach, because you hear it all the time. It's about who knows you and all those sorts of things. But those are kind of the six categories that we focus on. We assess those based on a soft skill assessment organization that we found a number of years ago and we're still kind of playing around with it. The good news is those that we work with have a really high career preparation rating, and all of them, almost all of them, 99% of them have been one or more categories based on our assessments, which is a hard thing to assess, but nevertheless pretty consistently. Those are the types of things that industry is looking for in young people. I'll stop there and see if you want to dive deeper. Otherwise, I have another train of thought.
Dr. Katie:Yeah, yeah, Well, and I love it because I think it's so critical and so hopefully this will launch into your next thought, Because one of the things I hear from clients all the time is gosh, kids these days and this generation and oh, they're so impossible to deal with. And then I have to remind people like I'm 49. Back when I was 23, I was young and dumb as well, Like I had to learn these critical skills, and while we all have different experiences, in each generation, there's some really strong attributes and values and things that this generation has that we were never exposed to. So I'm wondering has there been anything that's really surprised you most about working with Generation Z, and what advice do you have for leaders and managers and how do we mentor this generation and help them understand and grow?
Mark Stewart:I'll get to answering your question and it's going to be a surprise moment because you actually sort of already answered it and I didn't even know that was going to happen. Perspective matters here, and this was sparked by a presentation. I did an offsite at Barclley the agency here in Kansas City. I don't think they do as much of this anymore, but they used to do a lot of research on marketing to Gen Z, and so one of the things this was again I think it was maybe seven years ago or so a presentation that they gave to our leadership about some of the research that they had done.
Mark Stewart:And I think what was most fascinating to me about it is like every generation has the same conversation about the prior generation. Like if you just took a step back and thought about it in a macro level, I think what you would understand is like this isn't anything new, and probably the most enlightening thing that they shared is, you know, they kind of went generation by generation. Think about the things that influence the way they are, and so if you just did nothing else, just give some critical thought to what has this generation gone through that might make me think that's how they are Then you could be in a better place, to then want to maybe do something about it or attract them in some different or unique way. But if you don't go through that process, it's sort of it doesn't matter, like if you have no appreciation for why they are wired the way they are, you can do said thing. You might keep them, you might not, but it's inauthentic. I don't think you'll really have the same level of appreciation for who they are as a generation. Always very dangerous because we're stereotyping a large group of people. But nevertheless, in Gen Z in particular and the older of Gen Z have the most awareness around the Great Recession. You know, think about things like ISIS or Sandy Hook. When you think about personal security, think about the first black president or marriage equality.
Mark Stewart:You know, think about issues or you know societal things that have happened and that might make them be a certain way or value certain things. So that, you know, obviously leads you to things like it's the most diverse generation ever. That's all they actually know. So the fact that we're making this big deal about DEI is kind of ridiculous because, like, what's the big deal? You know and so, but if you're not committed to diversity and inclusion, like it's. Generally speaking, you're not going to be a contender.
Mark Stewart:Mental health is a big thing, not just about the need for it but also the openness about it, and so you know employers that recognize that and provide support, for it goes a long way. They care about purpose more than you know some other generations and the idea of doing something good socially. And so you know, if you think about things like you know social ROI metrics that a company may have, or the way you show up in a shareholder's report, et cetera, that stuff matters to them and they'll pay attention to it. Even outside of the interview they'll pick up on that stuff. And so if you don't talk about the ways that you give back to your community or the way volunteers engage in the community from your company, you know they'll recognize those sorts of things. So just a few little nuggets.
Mark Stewart:The thing that I was going to mention that was an aha for me was this whole notion and the way you talked about it earlier was boss that hired you and says here's my goal for you. It doesn't have to be that way, but the way that one of the ahas for me with this generation is the idea of showing them what growth looks like. Because I think one of the knocks on young people for the better part of the last decade so even spanning the prior generation a little bit was they want to be CEO next week or whatever. And we've even had more members of ours that joke about it week or whatever. And like we even had more members of ours that joke about it.
Mark Stewart:On one level, I think it comes from a place of appreciation. It's a drive and ambition and those sorts of things. But if you just thought about it a little bit differently, it's just this idea of they don't know what they don't know. They have the drive and the ambition. They just need some help understanding what the pathway could look like and what you're going to provide for them along the way. So the person that said it to you was like here's my vision for you. The way it could look is you know what are your 10-year goals? Okay, here's the way it could look in this organization to get you there. These are the things that we have in our budget to allow you to get set up training, or we have this sort of a mentoring program set up within the organization.
Mark Stewart:So I would want to connect you with somebody that's in that kind of a role early on. So you have that support like simple stuff like that. It doesn't have to break the bank, but you have to be interested in investing in the young person. So what the difference is? You're hiring a young person to fill a role and you can't have the expectation Just keep your head down and do a good job and then things will come your way.
Mark Stewart:That's the old school way of thinking. They want to be able to see their pathway, they want to see the opportunity. All those other things have to matter too. You have to value me as a person, a human. You have to care about who I am, appreciate my health and well-being. I want to be a part of something more meaningful. So I don't just want to do accounting work. I want to do accounting work for an organization that is creating social change or whatever, and everybody can do that stuff. You just have to be intentional about it. But nevertheless, that was probably one of the biggest ahas, because it was. It sat a little bit different for me when I started to unpack it and we start talking to people about young people and what they expect, and it was just teed up perfectly by you.
Dr. Katie:So yeah, oh, I love it. I love it. Yeah, and, as you're talking, I'm like we've got to do a whole separate podcast. Like I think you and I could talk about this for days because you know you're so passionate about the work you do and the students and young professionals you serve, and I'm so passionate about changing the narrative in the workplace about all generations. But, as you're talking, I think it's something that I do a generational workshop and I always tell people like I read what Gen Z's want, like everything you said, and I'm like did any of us not want this? Do any of us Like we want to feel valued, we want to know our path, we want all that stuff. We're just not vocal about it. We just went back to our cubicle and complained about it. They'll say it out loud, which is annoying to some people, but it's like we should celebrate them and then teach them how to say it correctly and how to say it in a way.
Dr. Katie:And and my son came home two years ago from work. He had been there a year and he was having a meeting with his boss and so he's 22 at the time and he was my son was pissed and he said I think I'm going to leave and I'm like, okay, tell me why I love this stuff. And he's like you know, I went and told my boss I was bored and he was like sorry, I don't know what to do with that. And I'm like what did you like bored at work? Like how seven-year-old are you? Like what did you want to puzzle? Like what do you do with bored at work? And he's and I said what do you even mean by that? And he said, well, I've mastered this job. Like I've got it. It's not technically difficult, it's boring work. I do it every day. And I said so what was the question you wanted him to answer? And Drew's response was what's my path? Like, what's my next step? How do I grow?
Mark Stewart:It's like can you please go back and say that to him tomorrow, because we don't know what to do with bored at work, but we do know what to do with what's my career path. Yeah, or another angle to that is this idea around flexibility. So most people will think about that in terms of virtual work and a young person wanting to work remote. That's actually not what the majority of Gen Z wants. They crave people interaction. They want flexibility.
Mark Stewart:However, the connection I was going to make is actually deeper than that, which is they're digital natives. They know how to get things done differently. So how do we get out of their way and allow them to do their work in either the way or the schedule or the technology that suits them best, and they may do it much better and much more efficient. And that's similar but different than what you're describing, which is there's a pathway component to this, but there's also, you know it doesn't need to be done the way it's already been done. They might actually do it better, which means you might need to give them more responsibility and or more time off. One of the like. They just creating flexibility and being able to do things their own way, and they're the most tech savvy generation ever, because they were born with it.
Dr. Katie:Yeah, yeah, and you know I tell people all the times, the things that Jenna Scott and Emma Blankenship taught me when I was starting Catalyst was you can be more efficient and more effective using technology and doing things differently. And there was things that they technology they would introduce to me and I was so uncomfortable because I didn't understand it, but now I couldn't live with without it, and so being open to learn from their skills is so important. So well, and before I ask the last question, which is a question I ask everyone on the show, I I'd be remiss if I didn't talk about the amazing podcast that you all have. I was so fortunate to be a guest called cultivating leaders Leaders, which I appreciate the name Cultivating so can you talk just a little bit about it, how it came about all of that?
Mark Stewart:Yeah, again thinking we're just coming up on our 30th anniversary, so we're relatively young as an organization goes. So our oldest alumni, if you will, are, you know, in their 40s, so most of what we do is predominantly targeted to that. Younger we are demographic that want practical tools, a fresh perspective, want to be inside the minds of people that have sort of made it in some form or fashion, and so ultimately, all we're doing we're packaging that in a podcast form. So we're trying to find a diverse set of accomplished people that have something you need to share and I hope that outside, or an outcome of every episode is, you know, actionable advice, something that inspired you know someone in some way or gave them you know things to try, and so, you know, bringing leadership that's relatable to the masses. So, yeah, at futureorg is the website. I'm sure you'll put it in your show notes, but if you go there and you can find the cultivating leaders podcast, we'd love you to hop on any platform Spotify, Apple, YouTube, Amazon.
Mark Stewart:They threw the Amazon music in there as a bone. To me it was a running joke. Like, is anybody actually listen to Amazon music? I think I'm the only one. So they, I think, thought it would be funny to put it on Amazon music too. Like I'm already paying for the subscription, it's got the music that I want. Like I'm not going to pay for Spotify. Even my kids don't use it.
Dr. Katie:Like, anyways, that's funny I don't think I realized Amazon Music had. But good to know. Well, and I will say too, it is well. A lot of the guests are from agriculture and agriculture adjacent. My husband listened to my episode, which I appreciate he did that, and then now he's gone back and listened to other episodes and he's like it's so well produced, it's so well hosted. It is really fantastic.
Mark Stewart:Well, we appreciate the plug. Yeah, I agree I'm partial, but nevertheless I try to play a part in making sure we have some really high quality guests that do some pretty significant things across the industry high quality guests that do some pretty significant things across the industry. And anything that we do, we try to. We don't try. We value diversity, so we're always looking at the lens of what representation do we not have? It could be industry representation, it could be demographic in nature, it could be gender in nature. So I think we've got a pretty good subset of guests and, yeah, nicole does an amazing job as the curiosity captain of the podcast. Yeah, hey, katie, I know you want to wrap up. I have a little bit of a rant that I want to go on. It's a good one. Okay, let's go.
Mark Stewart:So you know, we've been talking about how to prepare young people for careers and even in career, the things that you need to do to continue to sharpen your saw, and it takes, you know, a certain kind of person. You got to have a pathway, you have people that support you, etc. I have a bit of an issue that I'm trying to figure out how to deal with Now. Again, granted, this comes from. I've got a. My oldest is going to be a senior next year in high school, and so I'm living it, even though I've been working with college students all these years.
Mark Stewart:I was listening to some of your podcasts recently. I've been listening to others. I bet to a fault you could go back and reflect on most of those conversations. I bet to a fault you could go back and reflect on most of those conversations and in the introductions they start with I studied this. I don't do anything with that now. My path did this, that and the other, and I guess my issue with that is how do we do a better job getting people on the right path earlier on? So in our space, the issue is there's not enough people for the positions that are open, that are coming out of traditional programs, and I say traditional meaning as a school of agriculture or whatever, whatever, whatever, not you know someone coming out of the school business that happens to go work for an ag company? That happens too, but that's what is happening more and more often these days, and employers are having to work harder to try to find the right fit. You have less people coming from more traditional ag backgrounds, whether that's on a farm or in a farming community, and so there's this issue that I'd love to solve. So if somebody's hearing this and want to do a brainstorm, katie and I will go to join you. But it's the idea that you know, counselors in middle school and high school have far bigger issues to deal with than career counseling. I mean, some of that happens.
Mark Stewart:Sure, my kids took assessments that kind of told them about things they might be interested in. For my daughter, we fed it a little bit. It didn't work. I'm going to set her up with people to do shadows this summer because I can and I have the connections, but I'm probably doing more work than 95% of other adults that may not have the time or want and or may not have the connections to try to help feed it. There are great programs out there, like CAPS programs and others that do feed experiential based learning.
Mark Stewart:So I'm not saying that there's none of this out there, but I feel like there's this constant struggle and it's been a generational epidemic of like how can we find the pathway that fits our skills and interests, that we can kind of see what it actually looks like? It's not just a one pager that describes a day in the life I can, it's gotta be top worthy. Like I can follow them along in their journey. You know, make it exciting, make it interesting.
Mark Stewart:Ag is really suffering because it has a perception of it's just farming, and that's the farthest thing from the truth. There were self-driving tractors before there were ever Teslas, and so young people don't know that. How do you? Again, it kind of all comes back to how do you help young people find their pathway much earlier on so they're not changing their major seven times? I think one of your guests was that recently I picked it in freshman orientation because I had to have a major declared. Granted, I went to play football, so I was already dumb, but nevertheless I just wish that we could come up Now. Again, we're interested in food, ag, natural resources, that whole sphere, but it needs to happen more broadly so that people find their fit, you know, even if their career is still going to look wavy right, it's not going to be a but they get somewhere with purpose as opposed to by chance, kind of. Back to the culture thing, you know.
Dr. Katie:So I, I love that and I will stand right next to you on this rant because I I think the stereoty, this is your path, this is what you're supposed to do. You go, you know you do this because that's what you do when you go to college, because that's what you do when you declare a major, because that's what you do in that. And there's so many opportunities out there. There's so many things that didn't exist back in our day. It's just constantly changing and growing and whether it's you go to college and go to a traditional program or you don't go to college, and there's opportunity in all these industries and I think you know the skills. That and the behaviors and the competencies that you all value and I do as well sets people up for success.
Dr. Katie:But people don't know what they don't know and if they've never been exposed to. My husband works for an organization that's ag adjacent. He's actually he's going to kill me when I say this, he'll probably edit it out but looking for another opportunity because that some logistics in his organization's changing and his position's being eliminated. But so if anyone needs a training development director, shout out to me. But there's just so many opportunities out there that people don't know about because they've never been exposed to that. We've got to get that out there. The nice thing is the younger generations are so technologically advanced. You mentioned TikTok, which makes the hair on my neck stand up, because I hate TikTok so much but also I love it. But we can expose them to things if we do it right.
Mark Stewart:Yeah, and in our case it's an industry that has this perception, with young people that don't have any understanding, and there's so much excitement and opportunity they just aren't exposed to it, and you know, anyways, all that to say, we're working with the likes of, you know, 4-HFA and others to talk about this pipeline issue and there's such a small percentage of youth that are interested or exploring these career pathways and, by the way, whose job is it to solve for this? I mean, we all kind of do our own little part, but there's a whole continuum of education that needs to exist and this is only one sort of industry vertical. You know, you got healthcare, you got finance. I mean, pick them all.
Mark Stewart:All have probably the same issue, but it kind of all comes back to finding fit and, you know, doing things that you're passionate about and figuring that out, versus again it just happening by chance. Again, that was my story. I didn't know people raised money every day for the university, Like I had no clue, and then I stumbled into it, I enjoyed it and in some way, shape or form, I'm still doing it today but total happenstance.
Dr. Katie:So anyways, yeah, I love it. I told a story on your guys' podcast about how I fell into HR. I had a horrible professor in my master's program that said you're more cut out for HR. And I'm like I don't even know what that is. But yeah, I think you're. I think you're so right, I think there's so much opportunity out there and I will put in the show notes the website. But how else can people support the work you all are doing and connect with you, like what do you all need and how can we support the work?
Mark Stewart:Well, if there's any young people and young I would classify as maybe graduating high school or in college that might stumble upon this, listening to it with a specific interest in, you know exciting and luc of our student leaders that are the best advocates for either the development that we can provide access to or the career opportunities that they've exposed to through internships and whatever, and so that would be one thing for that audience or apply for some of our experiences For any professionals out there that want to be engaged. I mean, certainly there's volunteer opportunities for us. So for us that would be things as simple as you know reviewing applications and essays and scoring, and it's pretty simple and easy process, one way to get back in to read what young people are passionate about, because that's what we're scoring in some of our essays. Other ways would be to, if you work in industry and whether it's a company that is a supporter of ours or not, engage in programs. And so if you want to be a volunteer and do a career roundtable or you think you have a speaking topic that is a technical area that might fit within one of our institutes as an example, that would be another thing. You can go express your interest to volunteer on our website, so that would be another way.
Mark Stewart:Much like any other nonprofit, we're based on support, so if there's individuals that are called to our mission and want to support us, that would be another option and you can do it. Give now on our website and you can even go look yourself up at, you know, charity Navigator or others. You know we take great pride in the high rating that we have as a charitable nonprofit. So those would be a few ways. And if you represent a company that's in this space whether it's directly in ag or ag adjacent the term you've been using and are interested in supporting or getting involved in our experiences, you can reach out to me on LinkedIn. I'm pretty active on, so if you go find Mark Stewart at FA, I'll pop up pretty easily and so you can connect with me on there. Send me a message. That's the easiest first introduction. Otherwise, the website is the best resource for everything else.
Dr. Katie:I love it. I love it, perfect. Well, so the final question that I ask everyone on every show, and the reason why I love this question is because our career paths, as we talked about, are windy roads, even if we know what we're going to do, or whether we don't, and just figure it out. So, to the level you're comfortable sharing, what's the biggest leadership or career misstep that you've taken?
Mark Stewart:Yeah, I wish I had something like really juicy, because I would be fine sharing it. Mine is not going to be as exciting, but I think it's. The thing that I would say I'm still struggling with at times is just the notion of delegation. I mean the how it's done, it's the willingness to let it go. It's when you do let it go, do you provide the right direction, which is here are the things I expect you know. You go, do the rest, you know and illustrate, so that when I come back with a great idea, you don't say, well, I really wanted this to happen and then you frustrated. That, like the whole thing around delegation, which is everything from again giving up and accepting it can be done another way, creating clarity in the process, all that stuff. Like it's really hard, especially when you come up. You know you get into positions in leadership where you have the ability to delegate because you did those things really well and you think you did a pretty darn good job and think the way you did it was pretty awesome, and you know, and that's and I still messed up today.
Mark Stewart:I wish I didn't. You know, it's just one of those things. It's really I don't know why. Maybe it's just me, I don't know. If you've got it figured out, let me know. But that's, that's the thing, I don't know. It's just the thing for me, you know, I keep, I have great intentions. I'm like, yeah, well, I'll take the lead on doing this when somebody else can knock it out in 30 seconds and I never get it done or it's delayed and it frustrates me, you know. So it's yeah, anyways, there'srates me. Yeah, anyways, there's a good but a good book. If you don't, if you want it done right, you don't have to do it yourself, like that's, that's interesting A resource. I don't know if that's a raving compliment, since I just said I still struggle with it today, but nevertheless it's a decent book for somebody that's interested in the topic of delegation.
Dr. Katie:Yeah yeah, delegations are hard. I always tell people delegation's a gift. It allows someone else to grow in an opportunity, but it is a struggle. So I appreciate you sharing that. Yeah Well, thank you so much for your time. Seriously, I would love to do another episode where we just talk about Gen Z, because there is just so much we can do. So we'll have to schedule something for maybe later in September or October where we just dive into the generations.
Mark Stewart:But I appreciate your time. I know who's in charge. I can help with that.
Dr. Katie:I don't know. She's kind of tough. Well, thank you for your time and your friendship. Kind of tough. Well, thank you for your time and your friendship and I appreciate you always positively responding to my texts when I give you a hard time about the gorillas beating the bearcats. But I'm bracing myself. The pendulum always swings.
Mark Stewart:Yeah, it's just like life there's always peaks and valleys. You're wonderful, katie. I appreciate the opportunity and ditto the friendship and anything else, so it's been fun thank you so much and thank you for everyone listening.
Dr. Katie:I'm going to put all of mark's information and afa's information in the show notes. Please reach out and support this amazing organization. They are doing great work and we know agriculture farmers. The work they do is the backbone for all of us, not just our country, but for the world. They feed us. So thanks for listening and I'll talk to you next time on the Path to Leadership. Bye, everyone.
