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The Path To Leadership
We podcast about strong leaders, loyal employees, avoiding burnout, and raising profits building strong cultures. Everyone is a leader, but the path isn't always easy. Developing critical skills to build stronger, more successful and profitable organizations.
The Path To Leadership
Crafting a New Path: Jeff Pelaccio's Evolution from Tech Enthusiast to Entrepreneur
What if the path to leadership starts with a passion for technology and a high school computer course? Jeff, the founder of Pelaccio and Partners and mastermind behind The Corporate Couch podcast, joins us to reveal how his early interests paved the way for a diverse and fulfilling career. From AT&T to solopreneurship, Jeff has navigated the ups and downs of the corporate world, ultimately embracing the freedom and creativity of launching new ventures. Tune in to learn how his journey, filled with surprising twists and collaborations with top-notch companies like Terra Crunch and Exec HQ, has shaped his unique perspective on business and technology.
Jeff's story isn't just about career evolution; it's about the power of adaptability and the resilience to thrive in changing environments. His experiences at industry giants like Sprint and Bayer Crop Science have given him a wealth of knowledge, but it was the pandemic that truly tested his ability to pivot. Throughout this transformation, Jeff has been committed to mentoring recent graduates and sharing insights on the importance of continuous learning. Discover how his role as an educator at KU and his foray into podcasting have allowed him to connect with inspiring individuals and share valuable lessons.
Leadership isn't just about guiding a company; it's about fostering a culture where people want to be. With a focus on personal relationships and understanding colleagues beyond their professional roles, Jeff's lessons in leadership highlight the profound impact of truly caring for people.
Connect with Jeff: linkedin.com/in/jeffpelaccio
Corporate Couch Podcast: https://thecorporatecouch.podbean.com/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thecorporatecouch2023/
Follow Catalyst Development on LinkedIn @catalystdevelopment and @drkatieervin
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Learn more about Supervisor 101 at www.cdleaders.com/supervisor101
Theme music by Emma Jo https://emmajo.rocks/
Welcome back to the Path to Leadership. I am really excited about my guest today. Many of you are going to know him and hopefully listen to his podcast, but before we get into all the great things he does, I just want to say, hey, jeff, how are you?
Jeff Pelaccio:Katie, good morning. I'm honored to be on your podcast, so thank you.
Dr. Katie Ervin:I'm honored to be on your podcast, so thank you. Well, and I, you know, I've known of you forever. And then Mark Schaefer is like how do you not know, Jeff? I'm like I don't know. So of course, Mark doing what Mark does connected us.
Jeff Pelaccio:Yeah, mark's fantastic. We, we like trade off, like great people that each of us does not know, and you were one of those that he introduced me to one of the many, by the way. So, yeah, it's been great and I same thing. I had heard about you for a long time and, yeah, it's been just wonderful to get to know. You have you on my podcast. I'm a little pissed that you know it took you so long to get you get me on yours, but you do seasons, so this is season whatever two or three, so I'm only kidding Of course I know you are, I know you are Well and it's it's um it.
Dr. Katie Ervin:This is audio, so no one's going to see it, but we do have to acknowledge which I appreciate. You are green for me today, uh, which makes me blissfully happy.
Jeff Pelaccio:Yes, I knew it was Katie's favorite color so I wanted to.
Dr. Katie Ervin:It's, it's a Jets polo, but other than that, I was going to leave that part out, but we should acknowledge that you are a massive Jets fan. There you go. I love it. Well, so can you introduce yourself to everyone? What do you do? All of that good stuff?
Jeff Pelaccio:Yeah, so I'm the founder, I guess, of my own company. I'm a solopreneur, so it's Palaccio and Partners. So I've worked and I think we'll go through my career journey. But I work for large companies and very small I call it every T-shirt size company from 16 employees to over a million. When I worked at my first job out of college, AT&T, but right now I think the phrase is portfolio career.
Jeff Pelaccio:So I am doing a lot of different things. The main one is I host my own podcast called the Corporate Couch and I provide me and my business partner, Joe Deshaun, provide a service where it's a turnkey solution to if companies want to do their own podcast, either internally for their employees or externally to attract clients. So we've got some traction there and I partner with great companies to help them attract new clients. So I'm working with Terra Crunch here in town, EDA, Bonnie Hagnan's company, Exec HQ, which I do their podcast. Growth companies that can't afford a CFO, a CMO, a COO, a CSO all the alphabet soup of C-suite leadership. But yeah, so it's been great. I represent high-quality companies that have high integrity and can do great things for their clients.
Dr. Katie Ervin:Yeah, it's so neat all the different things that you're able to do. And talking about podcasts, I mean podcasting is something I've dreamed about doing for years and for you to be partnering with people and organizations. I have people all the time say you know how do I start a podcast? And it's like get a microphone, get going Right. I mean start and then figure it out.
Jeff Pelaccio:Exactly, exactly, yeah, and I it was, you know, and everything you know you do in life, you do it at the right time, but I had the podcast idea probably in 2016, maybe 2017. I went through Seth Godin's podcasting workshop from the late fourth quarter of 18 into 19 or 17, into I don't know whatever it was, but I finally launched it in January of 2023. So, yeah, I have over 100 episodes and I publish weekly. It's been a phenomenal journey and, as you know, katie, doing interviews with people, great people like you, learn so much and it's just fantastic and I've been blessed to have just some unbelievable people, like the co-author of the Go-Giver, bob Berg, and Seth Godin is coming. We're recording here on October 2nd, but, uh, seth Godin, uh, the fabulous, uh, entrepreneur, um, you know, brilliant business mind, he, he's going to be an upcoming episode in the coming weeks. So, yeah, I've been. It's, it's been a great journey.
Dr. Katie Ervin:Yeah, I enjoy, I love. I love interviewing people, just like you said, like I love learning it's. It's amazing the things that people will share on a podcast, Like you've known them for years, and then they'll share a little nugget and it's like, oh never knew that, but I'm constantly. I listen to your podcast so often and then I like side text you and I'm like that was so good.
Jeff Pelaccio:I learned so much. Yeah, yeah. Well, thank you for listening. I appreciate your support.
Dr. Katie Ervin:Yeah, it is so great. So you kind of gave us a peek into your career journey, but will you tell us kind of where it started and how you got to where you are now?
Jeff Pelaccio:Yeah. So, as you know, it's the career journey and what I try. You know I do a lot of mentoring to recent college graduates in terms of their first job search and starting their professional career journey, and what I tell them is like you're not going to do the same thing, like your first job is not going to be what you do for the rest of your career. I mean, obviously, but I'm even talking about so for me, I didn't know what to do. Uh, you know, in terms of you know, I was very good in school, so I got, I got good grades. My dad was a union welder and so his career advice to me was you know, don't be, don't work with your hands like I do, go into business. So that's pretty vague. But so I took a high school computer course in my senior year. I won't tell what language it was, because that will reveal my age, but it was a half semester course and I thought, well, computers are going to be a big thing and I know I can get a job in it.
Jeff Pelaccio:So I went to Manhattan College. As of two months ago or three months ago it's now Manhattan University in the Bronx I got a partial scholarship. I enrolled as a business major with an emphasis on information systems. So I didn't take the mathematics route of computer science because I wanted to have a broader degree. And so that's what I did. And I ended up double majoring in finance, thinking that's good to know the numbers. And I, you know I was. My math skills were really good. So, anyhow, so that's. And then I started at AT&T, when it was the largest company in the world over 1 million employees and I was accepted into their management development program for software developers. So it was a four-month training. Just to go on record, my initial salary was $20,000 a year and I thought I was just rolling at it.
Dr. Katie Ervin:Yes, I remember my first job when I made $10 an hour. I'm like, yes, I'm rich, but gas was 79 cents, yeah exactly.
Jeff Pelaccio:So it was funny too, because our class, our training class, and that program was about six people and the usual class was about 15, but it was a big recession so they cut it down. But it was a pass fail. So if you didn't make it and one of the students or students one of the my coworkers did not make it, they failed the test or whatever. So they were ousted out of AT&T. That was their last day test or whatever. So they were ousted out of AT&T. That was their last day. But you know, we did four months of, you know, basically eight, eight to five training for four months. I but I really literally thought I was in college but getting paid for now, what you don't understand and what I tell recent college graduates is you know, you know you're used to having no classes in a day, two classes in a day. It's a really big jump to work eight straight hours in a day yeah.
Jeff Pelaccio:Yeah. So, anyhow, I got into software. I became an application developer. I took a you know, did a you know turns in terms of you know, became a team leader. A team leader then went to the business side of computers where I was a business analyst developing the specs for programmers, and then migrated into Sprint. So I had about a five and a half year run. So Sprint now T-Mobile was one of the biggest employers in Kansas City. They were only about 18 months old, so it was a startup.
Jeff Pelaccio:And um, again I got a big pay raise to go over there and again I'm thinking, not geez, I'm just rolling in it. Uh, so it was great and I was about 28 years old and um started in project management on, got bored with it. I I literally was installing a general ledger system with um, my finance counterpart, who was a director, and I was one level below that and we're literally he's going through the manual and we're installing the package. It was a package software, mccormick and dodge for all those people that really want to know um. But and I'm thinking, okay, I'm getting paid a lot of money, this guy's getting paid a lot more than me and I'm like I got to do something else. I wanted to get closer to the customer. I, you know I'm, I'm. I'm not the typical programmer. I, you know I was decent. I would say I was above average, but I'm, you know I wasn't the person that wanted to be in the closet. You know drinking Mountain Dews and cranking out code, you know. So I, you know, Sprint was a big company. They posted jobs. So I saw this group manager of database marketing. It was a brand new job and I went into working for the advertising and marketing department of Sprint, long distance again, and that led me to an entire career of working with technology and IT and being the main business partner in sales and marketing.
Jeff Pelaccio:So, like I said earlier, sprint was a big company. I think they were about 55,000 at their highest, 55,000 employees. But I worked for Bayer Crop Science, so they were large. I worked for Capital One in their home loans division and then I worked for a small company. So I did a lot of marketing stuff, both B2C, b2b and a lot of startups in terms of initiatives, companies, and I love the startup. I was employee 55 with Sprint PCS when it wasn't part of Sprint, so that was a phenomenal run. It was a $10 billion startup and I mean, I still think it's the biggest startup today and what we did there was amazing Just building a company in such a short time. So I can go on and on, but I, you know, I've migrated.
Jeff Pelaccio:I spent about 10 and a half years in the animal health space, both for Beringer, ingelheim, a large company, uh, and now, I think, the second largest global animal health company. They weren't when I worked there but, and they were Town of Therapeutics, which was a startup here in Kansas City. They got bought out by Elanco, which is the third largest global animal health company. I went to United Way of Greater Kansas City right before the pandemic uh, working for a friend of mine, mike golf, as his senior VP of data and insights. And pandemic hits and you know, they lose about 25% of their full-time workforce, which I was included in that and I'd been a solopreneur since then. I I've done some other I my only W2 jobs since then. I taught at KU in their undergraduate business department for a semester, which was so fun.
Dr. Katie Ervin:Yeah, so did you always. I mean, I know the United Way. Like I tell people my story, like I always knew I wanted to eventually start my own company and then my last employer offered me like six weeks and a bag of beans and I'm like I'll take the buyout. I'll go like six weeks in a bag of beans and I'm like I'll take the buyout, I'll go. So did you always want to go out on your own? Or was it just kind of one of those things where it's like okay, here we go, now, now we do this?
Jeff Pelaccio:Yeah, love that question. So here it is. I mean, I, I had my own business. It was a franchise called Inches Away and I was running that. It was a weight loss center for women and Curves was the big franchise at the time. It started before Curves, started before curves but so it was assisted exercise, uh, with, uh, actually machines developed for polio victims to help them exercise. So it was that and some cardio, and then we gave them eating strategies which basically followed the american diabetes association eating plan. So it was fun and my, my, really my goal was and this was back in, uh, 2003, four or five, and my plan was to open up more than one and really get out of corporate America. I, just I and um, so it didn't pan out.
Jeff Pelaccio:Um, what happened was I had, was I was working for a very small company and headed up their commercial marketing and sales. When I started it was a 16-person company. It went to 28. And I lost my job there. They were built on not-for-profit companies like Salvation Army, joyce Meyer Ministries, and they decided to bring me in to build the you know commercial clients what you and I would think as clients, but you know for-profit businesses, sure, so you know, grew the business substantially. I was successful, but you know the support, not for profits and corporate clients. It's a little different and you have to be faster and more agile and I don't think they were ready for it. So they eliminated my position, gotcha, and I was funding the business with my bonuses from.
Jeff Pelaccio:And then what also happened? I was in a strip center and the main store there was a grocery store and I got a lot of walk-in traffic from that store in terms of clients that would sign up. Well, they closed the store right before all this happened about this. You know, right before all this happened to my and I'm like I literally did what the Baltimore Colts did when they moved to Cleveland, I think I I had some friends, um, come on a Sunday and I packed everything in that, uh in in that my uh little 2200 square foot, and we packed it and got rid of it in a pod and I turned in my keys to the landlord, got sued for a quarter of a million dollars.
Dr. Katie Ervin:Oh boy.
Jeff Pelaccio:Yeah, so anyhow long story, but I so I went back to working and I really didn't think any more about my own company and and really where I'm at now. And you know, uh, I I really felt my gift when I left United Way as a, as reaching out, you know, thinking about what to do next. I mean, I really thought my professional gift and I still do think this was helping companies build a great culture where people can have fun, do their best work and do great things together. And I think I've just ran into some ageism, maybe some genderism, maybe some racism and I don't say that as a oh woe is me thing, katie, but it's, it's definitely out there. So it you know.
Dr. Katie Ervin:Yeah, yeah, yeah it there is. There is all of that. I know that people are struggling with my. If my son is listening to this and he's likely not cause he's 22, he would be remiss if I didn't fact check you that the Baltimore Colts went to Indianapolis, which he was born in Indianapolis, and so we are Colts fans, along with Chiefs fans, under this house. So he will be mad at me. I wasn't exactly sure.
Dr. Katie Ervin:Well, and when you were talking about your career journey, I want to take us down a little path here, because you mentioned new college grads and that's something I am wildly passionate about and I know you ask for advice for them on your shows and I'm really distraught, like I woke up at 5am the other morning and an article like poured out of my head because I'm seeing all of these things about Gen Z's getting fired quicker and you know they're not getting a chance to develop and you know we're saying that they're not prepared for the workforce and you know they're coming in and kids these days, which I have so many thoughts on that. But I'm just wondering your thoughts on you know the new, you know the Gen Zs and coming into the career and and you know what can they do to be successful and how can we help them be successful?
Jeff Pelaccio:I think the challenge or the opportunity to be a great leader today is there's been no time like now where there's been so many different generations in the workforce. Right, so that's the challenge. But it's really about understanding them. Like, yeah, right, so that's the challenge. But it's really about understanding them. Like, yeah, everybody says, you know, they spend too much time on their phones. It's always texting and things like that. And I'm, you know, you know I'm in the baby boomer generation and I think, but it's just understanding and being empathetic to them. Right. And I think great leadership spans the generational gaps. Right, because you're going to do things to help them develop. I mean, that's a sign of a great leader, and you have to have high EQ and empathy to understand what they're going through.
Jeff Pelaccio:And I think there's no greater gift than being present with the person you're with, right, I mean, that's the gift. That's why they call it the present right, that's the gift. That's why they call it the present right. So it's so. And I do think there's a lesson there for the Gen Zs and the Gen Ys and you know the alphabet soup of that, the millennials, you know, but you have to be present. I mean, she's 30, 32. So they span 27 to 32. You know I, you know I always. You know when they were growing up, like you're with your friends, so you're with three friends but you're texting other people that are not there, right, right, but you know again. That's just, they grew up with technology. They grew up, but I do worry a little bit about the social skills of you know people growing up.
Jeff Pelaccio:You know if you're 12 years old today you're in a whole different.
Jeff Pelaccio:You know how they grow up is going to be a lot different. So again, and I think you can't you know, you, you have to focus on things. You know if you're getting pinged on your you know getting texts throughout the day, you lose focus. You have to give something you're doing. You know full focus and I'm the kid that I did my homework and study for tests with the TV on, you know. So, you know people could have said that about me. Well, they, my relatives, used to say well, how can you do that? I'm like, I don't know, I'm just doing it like that. I like doing it this way.
Dr. Katie Ervin:Yeah, yeah, yeah and um, you know, I I'm very open. I'm 48 years old, I have a 22 and a 20-year-old, and so I'm trying to do like the research to figure this out. But then also I feel like I have a case study going on in my house. I have one's an opportunity for really strong, great leadership and for us to really lean in to the gifts that Generation Z brings us. But then I also think there's opportunities for Gen Z to learn some new skills. But if we just give up on them. I was giving a talk one time on we do a program on leveraging all generations in the workforce and I had someone stand up and say, yeah, yeah, that's great, katie, but how do we fix them? I said, well, good news is you don't have to fix them. Bad news is you have to step up in your leadership and you have to be a strong leader. And that's the critical part to all of this, I think.
Jeff Pelaccio:Right, yeah, no, absolutely. I always say it's hard to fix yourself, so you know, good luck with fixing others.
Dr. Katie Ervin:Right, right, right. Well, in talking about leadership, I know you know, through the conversations we've had, you've seen and I think everyone has seen really great leadership, really bad bosses. So what are really the skills and behaviors that you think make people really strong and great leaders?
Jeff Pelaccio:Yeah, I mean, and I just one of the things I always say is you have to care about others. I just one of the things I always say is you have to care about others. I mean you that and I, you know, I feel I'm a caring person, but I think that's one of the key characteristics, and how that blends into emotional intelligence and empathy is important and I think you know I've had this philosophy, you know, for a long time in my leadership journey and but people I've interviewed will, uh, on my podcast we'll say the same thing. I mean you have to create a vision for the organization, the team, whatever you know, whatever you know level you're at, you know to cause. People want to be a part of something greater than themselves. People want to be a part of something greater than themselves. So you have to inspire that.
Jeff Pelaccio:You know, when I was at Eriton, I was employed 36 there. We didn't even commercialize the business when I started and I was heading up a lot of different functions. One of those was customer care, and I don't like to call it customer service. I call it customer care. It's about caring about the customers and we had two sets of customers veterinary clinics and doctors that were part of our studies, and I said the sales force is another customer for us, because our success is going to be important. But the vision I had for that two-person well, three-person customer care team was we're going to be the best customer care organization in the animal health industry.
Jeff Pelaccio:Now, okay, you know Zoetis, which is the former Pfizer animal health. They had, you know, probably a hundred rips and we're going to have to, you know, but it's still. You can still be the best, right? I mean, you can do things and you know. So I think that's important, you know, I think the ability to inspire, uh, is is important, communication's important, um, you know. And one thing I learned that I didn't really realize this I mean, it's great to be off, you need to be authentic, right, in a way. But you know how you show up every day, people watch you.
Dr. Katie Ervin:And.
Jeff Pelaccio:I really didn't understand. I mean, of course I make sense, but I didn't really. You know, and so not that you're, you know you're human. So there's times when you know you're, you know newborn gets up at 2 AM andm and you've had two hours of sleep. I mean, whatever you know, every day you need to be your best, but your best is relative. So if you go to work on two hours sleep, you're not going to be as good as if you had eight hours of sleep, just what it is. But you need to.
Jeff Pelaccio:And it's okay to tell people, hey, I had two hours of sleep, but you, you have to send an example of showing up professionally and you know, and and and, because people are watching you and I really didn't get that to, probably when I was probably in my late thirties, I didn't really get that message. Uh and again, you know you're not going to be as good, but you know, show people and you're also showing vulnerability, like I'm human but I don't get sleep. I'm, you know I'm not as good as I would sleep, right.
Dr. Katie Ervin:Yeah, yeah, and I think that speaks to you know, building a strong culture and creating an environment where one you know feels like we, we talk about. You know people should feel like they belong, not that they have to fit in, like you can come as your authentic, true self, still be professional, you don't not be messy, but you know how. How do companies intentionally build a strong culture? What do they need to do to to do that work?
Jeff Pelaccio:So, katie, I I talk about this on some of my podcasts with these great leaders, but I'm amazed at the number of companies, which is the vast majority. Why don't you? You know, if you're the CEO, founder of a company, why don't you want your company to be on the best companies to work for list? I think it's like breathing. You want to have people want to work for you. So it starts at the top. And Jonathan Jones, who's the cultural conversational leader at a local company called Demdeco they're in the B2B promotional items for companies and they've been around forever, started by a husband-wife couple back in the late 90s I believe, and he's had the job for I don't know 18 years, and I loved what he told me. He said culture is like your lawn right, you can tend to it and make it beautiful or do nothing, and you're going to have a shitty lawn, and the same thing with culture. So if you tend to it and be intentional to build a great one, you will. And it starts at the top and it's modeled at the top, you know. So it's not about you know. Great culture is not about having you know, lunches brought in or pizza day, or you know ping pong tables or bringing your dog to work, which is a great you know, but you know it's. You know what do, and people, you know there's studies out there. It's not all about the money, right? Yeah, it's about development and, you know, making sure people like. One thing I learned at Sprint, which I think they did, and there's been a lot of great leaders that came from Sprint that are now doing great things on their own or with other companies. But Sprint had an unbelievable training program. They had the University of Excellence, but they made each leader have a personal development plan for not only themselves but their employees, and I carried that with me everywhere, even if it wasn't part of the process, because I want them to develop right, because we all have stuff we need to work on, and it's about caring for them as a person. There's so many leaders that if somebody wants to leave their company or team, they get upset Like, oh, you don't like me, I don't care, I want the people that want to be here, and it's not for everyone.
Jeff Pelaccio:I worked with this great person, dewana Neal, at Bering O'Hime. She headed up market research and she was great at it. She was phenomenal. And she came to me and said you know I'm thinking about being a brand manager, going into marketing, and you know. So I gave her what my thoughts were, the pros and cons. One is hey, you can develop.
Jeff Pelaccio:We brought in a mentor, a consultant, debbie Pratt, who's you know, market research guru, and Debbie and I met at Sprint and worked together at Sprint PCS and she was mentoring Dewana and I said you can become a Debbie Pratt and stay in market research. Or, if you want to explore the brand manager less who do you know? Because she supported all the brand managers, the marketing managers who do you know? That maybe would give you a chance to be help them on a project. So you get to learn that. And she did that and decided to be a brand. I'm like that's great, yeah, yeah, yeah, because I hated to lose her. But that's not. She didn't want a journey to be a market research, so like, so, yeah.
Dr. Katie Ervin:Well, and I think I mean that's I I do a lot of stuff on me versus we, and I think that is that, that concept of we. How do we help everyone be successful? And I think so often managers are afraid like, well, I don't want to lose my person to someone else in the company, and it's like, but if they're not happy, you're going to lose them from the company, they're going to go someplace else.
Jeff Pelaccio:Katie, when I was at AT&T it was, you know. So my generation was the first generation where the jobs you didn't have for life You're not going to retire with AT&T or the Gold Watch. So when I worked with AT&T it was very collegial in the fact that, you know, it was all AT&T, they hated Sprint and MCI. It was all AT&T, they hated Sprint and MCI. So when I left, when I was leaving, and I announced it in two-week notice, I had people that I played softball with you know, 100 games a year, that wouldn't talk to me Jeez, you know, and that because I was going to the competitor, I'm like what it's crazy. And obviously they weren't my true friends.
Jeff Pelaccio:Right, right, good to know, that's how managers sometimes feel You're leaving me, I'm not a good leader. Well, if you're pissed about it, you're not.
Dr. Katie Ervin:Yeah, yeah, and it's funny, I interviewed for a job right out of my master's program, for an HR assistant job for a radio company in Indianapolis and it was one of my very first ever job interviews. And the CHRO said you know, my goal is that I develop everybody to where, in three to five years, they have to leave the company because I'm not leaving, I'm not retiring, but I want you to aspire to move up and I want you to build your skills. This is a stepping stone for you. And I thought, huh, that is the first time, you know, I really thought about that lifelong learning and how we, you know, create a career progression. And that's where a lot of my master's research went into. And I thought that is a very forward thinking person, cause that was in 2000, 99 ish timeframe.
Jeff Pelaccio:Yeah, yeah, it's phenomenal. I mean I there's been companies and I know North point is one of them, so there I've just interviewed two people that have worked there and one currently does. But what I love about them is they have they have worked with these two people so they can do basically side gigs and they're okay with it. Or they said, look, I'm going to work here one more year and give you my best, but then I'm going to leave, and they're okay with that, which I love because it's a win-win, right. But a lot of people would. A lot of companies or managers would say, oh, you're going to leave me in a year. No, you're going now. Yeah, yeah, which is crazy. You're a good performer and it gives you a time to find the best person, because now you have a year to recruit or you can rethink your organizational structure. There's so many benefits of doing it that way.
Dr. Katie Ervin:Yeah, and you think about the NFL and the coaching trees. I want a leadership tree. I want to be able to say I developed leaders that went out to all these companies and did really fantastic things, and it's like, oh well, what's the trunk of the tree, what's the roots of the base? Well, it's me as a leader.
Jeff Pelaccio:Yeah, yeah, I love that.
Dr. Katie Ervin:Yeah, so well, and when you think about leadership and you've talked about some of the influences you've had in your career but who really inspires you in leadership?
Jeff Pelaccio:You know. So, again, just interviewing so many people I mean a couple, you know that influenced me personally. You know Harry Campbell, who's well-known in Kansas City.
Jeff Pelaccio:I mean what Harry showed me. So he came from the P&ng team that started the walmart relationship down so they put a team at png. He was on the original team that went to bentonville and stayed in bentonville, you know. So he talked about sam walton and and you know who was a beautiful example of a great leader. But what? What harry showed me, and he's when he Sprint. He and I sat pretty close to each other and we were both early birds. We'd be in there at 6 am so we got to know each other. But what Harry showed me is to be yourself. He was the first leader Early days of Sprint. A lot of type A personalities walking around and talking. Some of them were assholes.
Dr. Katie Ervin:Yep Sure.
Jeff Pelaccio:And I know I can use asshole because your book is you might be an asshole, but you might not know it, so um well, hopefully I can swear.
Dr. Katie Ervin:You can, you can.
Jeff Pelaccio:Okay, there you go. Um, yeah, but you know the thing is, and it was like they were building, they do, they want to just climb the corporate ladder. It wasn't about, you know, the the me versus we. And and sometimes you know, and I think this is a leadership lesson that I learned is that you sometimes emulate the personality of your boss, especially when you're young, even though that's not you. So I think some of that you know I was working for, you know, some people that I emulated their behavior and it wasn't good, you know. But Harry showed me you could be funny, you could, you know, and that's my personality. Like you know, I I think part of you're working with somebody for eight hours a day and, um, you know, let's make it fun and I'm not saying it's a standup comedy routine, but you know I try to have fun at work and I think people want to have fun at work, right? So I think you know he was, you know he inspired me.
Jeff Pelaccio:And there was also a consultant I work with, charlie Stryker, unfortunately passed Now. It's probably been about five years. This guy was brilliant, he was. He got his doctorate in computer science in 1969 from NYU, founded his own company, sold it for about $20 million in the early 90s, which I can't do the math that quickly, but I got to say that's $80 million today in today's dollars. But talk about authenticity, charlie. He was funny, he was bright. I brought him on as a consultant and um, he's had these user forums in marketing information systems on the B2B side and he go to nice places.
Jeff Pelaccio:But he was so funny that you know, after the dinner you know we would have one night you know we go to the bar and Charlie, you know it's like midnight and we're in San Diego and Charlie goes there's a drive-through colonic place in Los Angeles. I go, charlie, there's no freaking way. I mean, there's a drive-through colonic where you stick your ass out your driver's side window and get a colonic. He goes, no, I'm telling you there is. I go. No, there's not. He goes. Let's drive there. We're in san diego, there's what is it? Two hours we're driving.
Jeff Pelaccio:But he was funny, like most people in that pedigree started companies and this is, it was just down to earth, brilliant guy. So and then you know, you know, um, you know a lot of people on my podcast. I, you know local leaders like you know mike allison at spotlight, ar. Andre davis I had lunch with andre monday. He's in kansas city. And then you know baron lucas, who was on my podcast 29 year marine corps colonel, led a fighter pilot squadron of 1500 pilots. I mean this became COO CEO a couple of different firms. He's a mini masterclass in leadership. Michelle Koopman, who I just interviewed, and then some of the names that you know, people outside of Kansas City would you know I'd love Reed Hastings, what he did at Netflix and what he continues to do.
Jeff Pelaccio:Just the culture part I mean the 120-page PowerPoint that went viral back in, I think, 2013, about we don't count the hours we work. Why do we count vacation hours? As they grew, the people that started Netflix, you know, grew up. You know they weren't the bright people, but they gave them great severance packages to help them transition. Yeah, I mean, he just did so many things from a culture perspective, I thought was just, you know, and obviously the transitioning from mailing DVDs to streaming was incredible. And the story I just heard about that they did not invite the people that were in the DVD division, the leaders of the DVD, when they were contemplating a new strategy, because they didn't want to be influenced by them.
Dr. Katie Ervin:Yeah.
Jeff Pelaccio:Yeah, because they would be ones probably that would resist change. Right, and you know that probably Netflix would not exist today if they didn't make that change. And I always loved Herb Kelleher, the founder and CEO of Southwest Airlines. Yes, you know there's stories of Herb being in the bars with mechanics from Southwest that you know, midnight, or whatever, talking to them about you know. So that's a caring, you know, and that's just me as a leader. That's what inspires me.
Dr. Katie Ervin:Yeah, I love it. I love it. And I have to shame my husband because he was one of the few that got a letter that said this will be the last month. We will no longer be mailing out DVDs. I mean, he stayed to the bitter end of it all. I think he was like registration, sign up, number three or five, and then he like stayed to the bitter end. He just like the people that love to hold a book, he loved to put a DVD in. He'd probably embrace VCRs if we would bring them back.
Jeff Pelaccio:Love it.
Dr. Katie Ervin:Yes, I know you have final questions that you ask everyone on your show and I always love the advice that people give. So I ask a final question on my show to everyone, To the level you're comfortable sharing what is the biggest leadership or career misstep that you've taken?
Jeff Pelaccio:Yeah, and I don't believe in mistakes. I think whether you believe in God or the universe and I know we've on our conversation we talked about you know God puts you where you need to be. Yeah, you know. But I think some of the things I learned in terms of you know I talked about some of them it's just, you know, showing up, no matter you know if you got two hours of sleep or eight hours sleep in a way that inspires others while being authentic. And you know if you got two hours of sleep or eight hours sleep in a way that inspires others while being authentic. And you know it's fine to tell your team hey, I had two hours sleep. So you know I might not be as sharp as I usually am, but people understand that and I think it's you know, being yourself, being your authentic, self-leading, so don't try to emulate others. You know that, in a way, that's not you and not true to your values.
Jeff Pelaccio:I talked about that with my sprint experience and I think the other thing I had to learn you know where I probably and it was probably a lot during my sprint days, but probably with other companies too later on.
Jeff Pelaccio:But I think you know it's easy to work with people that have a similar drive and you know the way you do things and maybe communicate, right, you just have a you know it's like your kids, like one of your kids is more similar to you than the other, right? So you know it's just easier, right. Yeah, the other, right, so you know it's just easier, right. But I think I I had a hard time with looking at people that didn't have the same drive and intent to do things that I wanted to get done, that were good for the business. I mean, that wasn't I was not driving my own agenda, but I really, and I and I think the lesson for me there and what I implemented was I need to get to know these people better in non-work settings, whether that's a lunch or grabbing a beer, and with no agenda. Just get to know them as a person, and that helped me in terms of building relationships. People had different values and drive than I did, yeah.
Dr. Katie Ervin:Yeah, I think that's so important and such a good message for us to end on, because I think, for me, leadership is about relationships and connections and getting to know the things that make us different. I recorded a podcast the other day and the guest ended on you know, the more we understand everyone's differences, the more we can lean into our similarities, which I think is powerful.
Jeff Pelaccio:Yeah, and one thing I didn't think I maybe talked around it, but I think the other thing too is you have to understand people as people. Yes, you know, when the great Kansas city coach, marty Schottenheimer, died, uh, you know, every player said Marty didn't only care about me as a football player. More importantly, he cared about me as a person. So you have to that's, that's what leadership is caring about that person as a person, not what they're going to do for you, you know, to make you succeed Right.
Dr. Katie Ervin:Yeah, yeah, yeah, that is so great. Well, thank you so much for being with me today and sharing. I will make sure to put all of your contact information and the, the podcast, the corporate couch It'll all be in the show notes, but your podcast is on all podcast platforms, correct?
Jeff Pelaccio:Yes, yeah, I mean the main ones Apple, spotify, amazon and Google.
Dr. Katie Ervin:So perfect, perfect. Well, everyone needs to go check those out. I won't ask you what your favorites are.
Jeff Pelaccio:That's like asking you to pick your favorite child. Well, katie, thank you so much. It's an honor to be on your podcast and I'm so glad Mark Schaefer introduced us.
Dr. Katie Ervin:Me too. Me too, all right. Well, thank you everyone for joining us, and I will talk to you next.
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