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The Path To Leadership
We podcast about strong leaders, loyal employees, avoiding burnout, and raising profits building strong cultures. Everyone is a leader, but the path isn't always easy. Developing critical skills to build stronger, more successful and profitable organizations.
The Path To Leadership
Redefining Leadership: Embracing Personal Growth and Professional Integrity with Jenna Washnieski
Leadership isn't just about steering a ship; it's about knowing when to adjust the sails. Join us as we journey with Jenna Washnieski, a dynamic leadership coach who has carved her niche in the nonprofit sector, focusing on health-related causes like HIV/AIDS and the National MS Society. Her narrative is both a roadmap and a reflection on how personal milestones and challenges, like celebrating the big 4-0 or navigating a divorce, can spark a profound reassessment of one's values. Jenna's insights on aligning personal convictions with professional roles illuminate the deep connection between who we are and how we lead.
As we exchange stories, the conversation shifts to the profound intersection of personal and professional development. We highlight the crucial role of self-awareness and vulnerability in fostering a positive workplace culture. By sharing our own experiences, from energy management to maintaining authenticity, we underscore the vital importance of understanding oneself to lead others with integrity and empathy. Jenna's own journey demonstrates how embracing one's true talents and strengths not only enhances leadership but also enriches life's overall fulfillment.
To round off our discussion, we explore the fluid nature of success and the courage needed to redefine it. Confidence, often born from facing challenges head-on, thrives in supportive environments that encourage bold steps and celebrate weekly wins. We delve into the lasting impact of leadership coaching and the power of gratitude, and we invite you to connect with Jenna through the shared wisdom of this episode. This is more than a conversation; it's an invitation to build a community that values personal growth and collective progress.
Connect with Jenna at:
IG: @inwithjenna
https://www.linkedin.com/in/jenna-washnieski/
Follow Catalyst Development on LinkedIn @catalystdevelopment, @drkatieervin, @jennascott
www.cdleaders.com
Learn more about Supervisor 101 at www.cdleaders.com/supervisor101
Learn about LEADERs Institute at www.katieervin.com/leaders
Theme music by Emma Jo https://emmajo.rocks/
Welcome back to the Path to Leadership. I am so excited for my guest today. I will tell you I was a fan of hers before we met. We were introduced by. I believe Jeff Palacio introduced us, or maybe it was Mark Schaefer yeah, you're nodding. One of those connected us and then I heard you on Jeff's podcast and reached out, so I'm so thrilled to have you with me today.
Jenna Washnieski:Hey.
Dr. Katie Ervin:Jenna.
Jenna Washnieski:Hey Katie, I'm so, so excited to be here.
Dr. Katie Ervin:Well, and what's so fun is I listen to your podcast. I think you listen to some of my stuff. Then we had like an old school, like 1990s, like phone call without video, Like do people even do that these days? I know we're taking it way back.
Jenna Washnieski:We're like grassroots style.
Dr. Katie Ervin:Right, we are very cool Old school. Here we go. Of course kids would be shocked that I'm going to age my. I tell people all the time I'm 48. Like, we used to have one phone with a really long cord and then, when you were really good, you had a phone in your room.
Jenna Washnieski:Oh, only the cool kids had a phone in the room.
Dr. Katie Ervin:Yeah, yeah, yep. Well, before we get into all of the amazing things that you're doing, can you introduce yourself to everyone who you are?
Jenna Washnieski:what you do. All that good stuff, yes, Hi, Hi everyone. I'm Jenna Waschneski and I am a leadership coach first and foremost, and I have my own personal practice in with coaching, and I also work with a company here in town as their internal coach and facilitator and get to work with a number of leadership teams and develop workshops and generally help people with their leadership development.
Dr. Katie Ervin:I love what you do and I know we're going to talk about it, but this is a perfect example where and I know we feel the same way People always say who's your competitors in town, and it's like I don't see anyone as a competitor. I see a lot of people doing really critical leadership development work in their own special ways, so it just to me no one's a competitor, right.
Jenna Washnieski:Right, and that's what I loved about meeting you. I'm like you are doing exactly what I do and what I want to be doing, like I look to you really as a role model, but like our approaches and our experiences lend a different perspective to how we do our work and there's enough space for all of us. And I think, like you and I are a perfect example of what it looks like to come to abandon that scarcity mindset and really embrace this abundance and support and work with each other. Yeah.
Dr. Katie Ervin:Yeah, I love it. I appreciate that you mentioned me as a role model. I'm not sure that you should. I think there's some other people out there, but I will accept it and appreciate that.
Jenna Washnieski:Role models are everywhere. That's what I think it's. Yes.
Dr. Katie Ervin:That is true. That is true. Well, can you talk a little bit about your career journey and in what brought you here today, like to what you're doing now?
Jenna Washnieski:Yeah, and I think this is the fun part about getting older, katie is that you can look back at like the retrospective of your life and your career journey.
Jenna Washnieski:And you're like, oh, that's why that thing had to happen, for this next thing to happen. And you know, listening to you on Jeff's podcast, it was so like there were so many of these moments where I'm like, oh, katie, katie gets it. You know it, this ability to notice these points in your career or in your path and follow them. But I spent probably over 20 years in nonprofits. Ever since college, I was passionate about lots of different causes, particularly health-related causes.
Jenna Washnieski:I worked for a lot of years in HIV AIDS organizations and I went to grad school actually to get my master's in public health and after my after grad school, I got a job at the National MS Society, where it was in the marketing department, so I could blend my marketing background and my health promotion expertise. And it was one of those things where and I think we, a lot of us, experience this when we enter the workforce we're like I'll be here for a couple of years and then I'll find something else. Well, every couple of years within the organization, I was given new projects and new roles and new opportunities to grow and stretch, and I'm always someone who said yes and raised my hands to things because I knew that every time I said, yes, I learned something, even if that thing was holy crap. I never want to do that again. Which is valuable.
Jenna Washnieski:Yeah, oh my gosh, I really do think it's so important. It's just as important to know what we don't want, whether it's at work or life or restaurants or wherever. But I had been with the organization for about 10 years and we had gone through a pretty significant reorganization and I was noticing a real lack in internal communication, employee engagement, just like community stakeholder engagement. I saw this need and I knew what I love to do and I knew what I was good at and I took a big chance and I wrote my own job description and proposed it to our president and said I think there's an opportunity for me to step in and really be like kind of like a chief of staff role where I was making sure that our employee engagement was on track, that our external community engagement was on track. I worked hand in hand with our executive leadership team to make sure I was a liaison between them and the rest of the staff and I loved it. And I loved it and I realized like I'm good at this. I'm really good at organizing people, motivating people. Um, I got to be like on the periphery of all of these different leaders, so I saw what worked and what didn't work with leadership and, um, you know, through all of this, my president at the time kept handing me more projects, stuff that she just didn't have time to do or had the capacity to get to. And when there was a president position that opened up in Kansas City. So, mind you, I was in Minneapolis at the time, I was in Minnesota for 13 years and a president position opened in Kansas City for this region she said, hey, I think you should apply for this. And after some deliberation and I'm like I don't know anyone in Kansas City who the heck do I think to be a president of anything Like you have all of these stories in your head, but in gen of form I raised my hand and I said yes, and I threw my hat in the ring. Long story short, I moved to Kansas City and started in a president role for a three-state region. Yeah, that's cool. Yeah, yeah, so just real quick.
Jenna Washnieski:Then after that, like being, you know, I learned a whole lot stepping into that president role and being an executive leader in a whole new city where I didn't know anybody, didn't know the landscape.
Jenna Washnieski:It was tough, but it was an exciting challenge and, you know, through this whole process of being a leader and having a lot of missteps throughout my process.
Jenna Washnieski:There was something in the back of my head that I always said you know, I want to do more around leadership. I think you know, at that time I felt really like not confident in myself and my skills, and I had no reason to believe that other than my own insecurities, and I knew deep down I'm like there's got to be something I can do more of to help more people be better leaders, become more confident, build great relationships, build incredible cultures. And I'd been in that president position for about seven years and this is in a post-pandemic world where I think we were all just kind of like you know what the F? Am I doing? I had this moment where I'm like you know what? I need to stop talking about this thing that I want to do and I need to actually pursue it. And that's when I got my professional coaching certification and, around that time, switched careers and moved entirely into where I am today, which is leadership development.
Dr. Katie Ervin:I love that whole journey and I love there's so many bits and pieces that just make me so happy, because it's like I'm just going to write my own job description and the worst they can say is no. And I think that is such an important message for people here, because the worst thing they can say is no, but they said yes and I think there's great power in that.
Jenna Washnieski:Well, thanks, and I think the other important thing, and maybe that's just something that we encourage everyone to do If you were to write a perfect job description for you, what would that be? Because I think what that does is forces you to really tap into. What do I love to do? What am I good at doing? If I could spend an entire day doing X job that I've created, maybe that's an exercise you and I can use with our clients.
Dr. Katie Ervin:Yeah, Well, and I actually like, when I start with coaching clients, I have them do like, if money and time, and you know, if you had no barriers and no excuses, what would you do Like what is that dream job? So I have them dream, and then I have them. Do you know what are your must-haves, your nice-to-haves and your deal-breakers? Because from there then you kind of have that level set of you're not going to jump to something that's shiny, you're not going to jump at something because you're desperate, like if you say your deal-breaker is I cannot travel because I have responsibilities at home. And then you get desperate. You still may take the job, but it's like you know that one of the deal breakers is travel. That's a problem for you.
Jenna Washnieski:What are you going to do with that? I like that perspective of what the deal breakers are, because I do think, when we are in this place of desperation which is a really harsh word, but we're like- I just want anything different than what I have right now. You overlook some of those things that might be diminishing to your self-worth, or those things that might be diminishing to your family or your wellness. So I like that perspective.
Dr. Katie Ervin:Yeah, yeah, and sometimes we just get in a panic too. I have some coaching clients and I'm sure you do too where it's like you tell them how long the process is going to take. This isn't going to be easy Like there. There are some quick and easy jobs that you can get theoretically in this world that are more entry-level jobs, but as we're coaching people higher up in their career, it's going to take time and you've got to be patient in the process to get the level you want, and so sometimes my clients will get a little panicky and I'm like let's calm down.
Jenna Washnieski:Right, I know, I know. I think, especially when we're working with high achieving people, we expect things to happen really quickly and we want it right now. Why isn't it happening for me? And so there is that moment of like discomfort and tension that comes from probably a lot of the people that we work with, just inherently.
Dr. Katie Ervin:Yeah, yeah, and it's a hard. I mean I've sat in that seat before where it's like I will be a Walmart greeter rather than come into this place again tomorrow, and then, like you, take a nap and are like, okay, I'm not going to do that, but still I would take almost anything else, right.
Jenna Washnieski:Right, and I think that's such a, that's such a good like eye opener. I remember there'd be some mornings I'd be, you know, coming into work waiting for my morning coffee, and I would just be waiting for them to make my coffee and I'd stare at the baristas. I'd be like God, that looks like the best job ever. That's what I want to be doing. Please let me do that job, Right.
Dr. Katie Ervin:Yes, anything, but what I'm about to walk into, well, and I think that ties so beautifully into a passion for both of us, is personal and professional development, and I tell people, my goal in life is to have impact on people, whatever that means. And so why is it so important for you this, this personal and professional development work?
Jenna Washnieski:Yeah, well, I think for me personally, I noticed this um, I, you know, moving into this, you know, new executive role in this new city, where I didn't know anyone, there was like all these pressures that I was probably most of them putting on myself, to be honest with you, but there are some external ones too. Um, but I, I was getting to this point where I realized I'm not happy, like I'm not happy right now. What is it where I'm not happy? Is it my marriage? Is it my job? Is it my just my hobbies? Like I it just I couldn't figure it out and I just, you know, I'm always an achiever Like I can figure it out and like I it just I couldn't figure it out, and I just, you know, I'm always an achiever Like I can figure it out and like, maybe if I just muscle through this a little harder and faster, then I'll figure it out.
Jenna Washnieski:And that was that was not helping either. And so I had this like it all kind of was this perfect storm of like turning 40 and all of this other stuff. And I realized like, oh, maybe I should investigate my values, what actually matters to me, and once I did that process of figuring out what my values are, I realized, oh, they're not actually showing up for me. I'm not living in alignment with them at work, in my marriage Spoiler alert, I'm not married anymore but there's all of these things where I'm like, oh, I'm not actually living in alignment with the things that matter to me. I'm living in alignment with who I knew deep down I was designed to be, and once I started dismantling and untangling that, which honestly was a really hard process, then the pandemic happened and that was a whole thing. It was just this massive untangling.
Jenna Washnieski:But I think what happens is you start to understand yourself, your patterns, how you communicate, what triggers you. Like, all of this stuff that you start to realize about yourself, um, not only shows up in who you are at home, but particularly shows up in who you are at work and how you lead people and if you're consistent and what kind of influence you're having. And so this is why this I call it the intersection of personal and professional development. Basically, like, the better you know yourself as a human person, the more self-aware and influential you'll show up in your work.
Jenna Washnieski:And that's what people want from their leaders. They want someone who has a 360 view of who they are and what matters to them, and can show up in that way, in a consistent sort of way, to build trust, to create a culture where people want to show up and be their best. So I really do think no one tells you when you start a leadership role like, hey, actually the hard part of this role is going to be you getting really clear on your stuff so that you can show up because you're going to be uncomfortable, you're going to be angry, you're going to question whether you're cut out for this, like you're going to have those moments of crying in your car because you don't know what to do, and that's going to be the hard part and that's why knowing yourself is, I think, one of the hardest but most critical parts of your professional development is, I think, one of the hardest but most critical parts of your professional development.
Dr. Katie Ervin:Yeah, I think you're so right. And as I'm just thinking about this, I mean I'm going through some of this now with personal stuff, with going to therapy for some extended family craziness. That's happening in my life and it's, like you know, I can't be my best self, you know, on a Tuesday if I am struggling all the time and so I've got to, I've got to not compartmentalize that because it still causes stress, like the days of, like you know, walk in the door, check your private you know private life at the door and and come in and and, you know, work your ass off for eight hours and then go home and pick it back up, like the world doesn't stop when we quote unquote go to work and we carry that with us and that is so important.
Jenna Washnieski:Yeah, yes, and I think two things. One, it's really important as leaders to know how to regulate that and be like if I'm in a real crappy mood today, what do I need to do to get myself good before I step in the office on a Tuesday, but also realizing that maybe you don't have to get yourself quote, good, maybe you can step into the office and be like, look, things are kind of crappy right now, I'm. I may not be as present as I want to be, but I just want you to know that I'm. I may not be as present as I want to be, but I just want you to know that I'm here, I'm doing my best and and having that vulnerability I think is so important and being able to show that as a leader so that other people emulate that and feel permission to be vulnerable as well. It can't like it can't go understated how important that is.
Dr. Katie Ervin:Yeah, yeah, yeah, I was just. I have just stacks of books all over. Oh, there it is. I don't know if we talked about this before, but I was just thinking about that. One of my good friends told me about the seven level framework for mastery in life and business and it's the seven energy leadership. Yeah, yeah, yeah, and I don't know if we talked about it, but I love it because it's like we all have energy levels and we come in at different and that has been so wildly helpful to be able to say. You know what I'm kind of at a one right now and how is that serving me? Which is not well. I cannot just crawl into bed with a bag of Kit Kats and crappy TV. I have to of Kit Kats and you know crappy TV, like I have to, I have to get myself to a level three to five because I've got work to do, Right, Right.
Jenna Washnieski:So, fun fact, I'm actually a um through the coaching certification program. I actually am a master practitioner of that framework. Yeah, so I know it really well. I know it really well and like, yeah, sometimes you need to be at a level one and be your. Your whole Kit Kat and bad TV thing sounds really like front of mind for you right now. I accidentally bought a bag of 35 fun size Snickers the other day accidentally.
Dr. Katie Ervin:Yeah, my husband accidentally bought a bag of 700 Halloween candy with. He's like it's all of our favorites. I'm like, can we not? Can we maybe not do that?
Jenna Washnieski:I've never seen a bag of 700.
Dr. Katie Ervin:That's like Costco level, it's Sam's and it should not exist. And, quite frankly, it does not exist anymore in our house Now it's down to about 75 pieces because you just you grab a couple.
Jenna Washnieski:Yeah, yeah. Well and back to the seven levels. Every single one of those levels serves a purpose, yeah, and I think it's important to remember that sometimes. And so this level, one framework, is like this we call it the victim, which I know is like a hard word to hear, but it's this, this feeling of like oh why does this stuff always happen to me?
Jenna Washnieski:Of course this is happening to me. If you ever felt like stuck and like there's no way out, like sometimes we need to just be with the Kit Kats and the bad TV and just let ourselves feel it, maybe that's what we need. It's when that is no longer serving us. That's when we get to choose, and we get to choose. We have a choice. What else might be more helpful right now? What else might be true? What would be possible for me if I just, you know, looked at where I can take responsibility in this situation?
Dr. Katie Ervin:Yeah, I love that and I and I took the assessment and I think it's really powerful and so I don't think that if, if I knew that you did this, it's it did not stick in my brain. I don't think we talked about it, which is so fun that the universe is like here drop, drop this out there. But, um, I'm not certified in it and I'm not I'm comfortable with the book, but I love so part of the. In the show notes we're going to put all your contact information because I think it's such a powerful tool when you're good, when you're thriving or when you're like, oh, I need to do some work. I think it's really a powerful tool. It is.
Jenna Washnieski:And what you said before, like, oh, I'm kind of at a level one right now. I've done this with so many teams at North Point Development and it's kind of fun where some of these teams they have this vocabulary and they kind of joke around like I'm at a level two today, you guys, and they kind of joke around about it. But it's a way to talk about your emotions and kind of where you are energetically to you know, just give everyone a heads up kind of around where you are. So it is fun that it becomes a shared vocabulary and people become more self-aware of how they're feeling and how they're showing up that day and how it might influence the people around them.
Dr. Katie Ervin:I love it. I love it. It's such a good tool and to the point of personal and professional development, that intersection. So much of the work we do is around people at work, but I'm sure you have experiences too where I've had people that I'm doing coaching at work about self-awareness and, you know, being kind and being open and and all of those things and and I will hear later from them like you changed my personal life and you changed that and I had a we do a six session program and at the graduation this guy's wife came up to me and said he'll never tell you this, but we were in marriage counseling and headed for divorce. And you want to talk about just immediate tears of impact. Like he did the work, I unlocked the skills, but he did the hard work of saving himself, saving his career and saving his marriage, which is why the things that you teach and I teach are so important, right, Right.
Jenna Washnieski:And two things that popped out. Like one I know you love to make an impact, so I'm sure that that felt really really good to know the impact you made on that guy. But the other thing too is I think maybe the lens that you and I share these tools with is this like leadership and work sort of lens, and it's kind of like sneaking the broccoli into the macaroni and cheese kind of thing of like hey, we're teaching you these tools that are going to be really helpful for you at work, but it's going to be helpful for you in other areas too. And so I think sometimes maybe for him, marriage counseling felt like this, like heavy, like I'm a failure kind of thing. But doing these tools through the lens of leadership development made it more palatable. That allowed him to hear it and internalize it and do that work in a way he maybe otherwise felt too shameful potentially to do.
Dr. Katie Ervin:Yeah, yeah, I think you're, I think you're so right, you know, and it just makes me think. One of the other areas that we love to talk about is you know people. It's hard for people when we talk about you know, opportunities for growth and some of your challenge areas, but we also and I know you in particular love helping people tap into their strengths and their passions, and I love what you talk about. You know remembering who the F you are and what the F you should be doing. So can you talk a little bit about why that matters in people's?
Jenna Washnieski:career journey.
Jenna Washnieski:Oh my gosh. Yes, and I love I could talk about this all day. But, you know, throughout my whole life I always knew that my hobbies and my passions were important to me, not just because they're like creative and fun and relaxing, but I knew all of this stuff was contributing to who I was as a person. Like they're creating this fabric, that of what made me unique and I was. My whole life I was always involved in a million extracurriculars in high school and, you know, in college I wrote like all this, like guitar music, and in grad school I started belly dancing, which actually ended up creating like a semi professional over a decade long like dance career for me during that time. But but I always had these other things that were important to me, that were like my creativity is so important to me, like having these other things that made me feel whole. I specifically remember this moment when I was in grad school. So, like I said, I got my master's in public health and I was a TA for this like intro level class that all the graduate level students had to take, and I remember it was a fall day and I was sitting in this lecture hall and I was looking at all these people in this whole lecture hall and I just, I'm like all these people seem to have have it all together, like they're getting these advanced degrees, they're like getting engaged and having babies and they have like little partitioned baby carrots and yogurt and they're talking about their running and I just, I remember sitting there in that lecture hall thinking, first of all, I don't, I don't think I want the same things as these people do.
Jenna Washnieski:Like I. I'm like, is there something wrong with me that this is doesn't feel, like this is for me. Like I was someone who liked going to rock shows and dancing and like getting high in writing music. Honestly, that was what I wanted to do and I'm like is there something wrong with me? And then the second feeling that stuck with me ever since is I never want to be at a place in my life where I feel like I have to sacrifice the person that I am to fit into a box. And that's why, like remembering who I am, it's always been important for me to see myself as a whole person with lots of interests and unique strengths, and to not lose sight of those and to see those as an asset rather than something that's like not making me like everybody else. So you know, I think in a lot of ways, we know at a really, really early age what we're good at and what we love to do and we forget that. And that's why I say, like, remember who the F? You are right Like.
Jenna Washnieski:I always encourage people when I'm working with them, like, hey, take a little stroll through your life, starting as a kid. What could you do for hours and never get tired of it? Like, what kinds of activities were you involved in in school? What are the classes that you loved? What did you gravitate toward in college? Like, what kind of problems do you like to solve?
Jenna Washnieski:You know, when you're part of a team, what unique talents and skills do you add to a team? Like, why does someone pull you into a team? And you know what do you contribute? So, being able to see the common threads and those unique things like do more of that. This is what I like. This is the distinction of, um, what I think you're designed to be, rather than versus who you think you're quote supposed to be. So, um, you know paying attention to what you love and you know those unique things that are kind of quirky, those are going to be the things that are going to help you stand out, and those are going to be the things that make you feel most like yourself.
Dr. Katie Ervin:Yeah, yeah, and I think too are the people that are later in their career. It's like I'm doing this job because I'm like you said, like I'm supposed to, or you know I'm doing this, so I'll be successful. I had a young man. I spoke to a class at Benedictine college and he pulled me aside afterwards and said my dad wants me to do this and I have absolutely no interest in doing this, but if I do this, then I will be rich and successful in his eyes, but I'll be unhappy and I'm like please don't give your dad my number. However, you got to figure out what success is to you. What does that mean? And for some people it is living on a yacht, and which would be lovely, but for me, that's not what success is. It would be nice if that is a product of the work I do, but the money in my bank account is not what defines success for me.
Jenna Washnieski:Yeah, yes, and I also think that our definition of success changes quite a bit, right, right, because, like that person that I was, you know, I'm like I've got to do this and this and follow this ladder and blah, blah, blah, then I'll be happy. Well, I did all the things and I still wasn't happy. So I'm like, okay, time for me to reassess what success looks like, and, and so I do think it really is important to just drop, plant those little seeds in people to really get them to think like, what does success look like for me? And what does it look like Just not from a material perspective, but internally like how will I feel when? Like, what does success feel like to me?
Dr. Katie Ervin:Yeah, yeah, and I love the point you made about it changes, because it's true, when you're 18, you know success may be that you like showed up for the last week of school because you have no motivation to do it. And you graduate, and, yeah, and, and, as we grow and and you know the, the people in our lives change and the responsibilities in our life change. Yeah, that's a really good I think that's a really good reflection that everyone should do at the beginning and end of every year is, you know, yeah, 100% yeah.
Jenna Washnieski:I think where we get ourselves into trouble is that we latch on to one definition of what we think success is supposed to be and we don't take time to reevaluate that and let ourselves evolve into whatever that next thing is, and so it's uncomfortable to shed versions of yourself or identities that you think you should have, but, holy man, when you do it, it really is liberating. Yeah.
Dr. Katie Ervin:Yeah, and that's interesting when I was talking to Jeff Palacio earlier today and talking about you know, sometimes when we work with business owners, they get so hung up on decisions they made 10 years ago thinking if I change from this decision I made 10 years ago, that means that was the wrong decision and it's like no, it means that was the right decision in the time with everything that you had available to you. It doesn't just because you changed paths doesn't mean it's failure.
Jenna Washnieski:Right, right, yeah. It just shows that, shows that you're open-minded and you're like, willing to innovate.
Dr. Katie Ervin:Yeah yeah, well, and I think a big part of success and figuring out what success is ties into so much of the work you do with building company cultures and helping leaders, and one of the big things that you do is working with leaders to build their confidence. And you kind of talked about kind of your, your maybe many are big kind of confidence crisis. I've had them, I still have them today, where there's times where imposter syndrome creeps in and that little voice and so what drew you to that type of work and and how do you do that with them?
Jenna Washnieski:Yeah, I feel like I'm regularly having a confidence crisis. I think if we're not having a confidence crisis from time to time, there's something wrong. Right, I think it's a lot of self-awareness. You know is is good for that. But you know again, but there's always been a part of me that, like I've mentioned, I have my master promotion.
Jenna Washnieski:Community health promotion degree is really about how do we work with communities to make them healthier and happier and safer and make better decisions. And in a lot of ways, what I realized, kind of inadvertently, is that I was bringing that same mentality to my workplace and the teams that I led. I was thinking like, okay, what does my team need to be happier and healthier and more successful? What are their obstacles? What do I need to prevent or mitigate those obstacles? So really bringing that community health promotion mindset into work and really setting up a community and programs or whatever it is to help people thrive. And so I think, like I still integrate a lot of that, like that public health learning, into how I work with teams, because we spend so much time at work and we, we, we deserve to be happy and healthy and thriving there.
Jenna Washnieski:But you know, with in terms of confidence, I think that it's the number one thing I hear. So I actually just yesterday launched a program internally with a company for emerging leaders, and I always do an assessment beforehand to figure out like, hey, what do you want to get out of this program? The number one thing I hear every time is I want to build confidence in my leadership skills, and I'm sure you hear this all the time. But when I say, okay, well, what does confidence mean to you? Every single person has a different answer to what that means, and it's just so fascinating to me because I really believe I say this all the time that we think that we need to be confident before we embark on something, and the reality is that confidence is the byproduct of you being super scared to do something, but doing it anyway. Yes, yeah.
Jenna Washnieski:And so it's not necessarily about having the confidence to do something. It's about having the courage, having the professional courage, the personal courage. Just to say you know what. I don't know if this is the right next thing to do, but this is my next thing to do and I'm going to step boldly and confidently into this next step. I'm probably going to make some mistakes, but you know what that's going to inform me for how I take my next, next step, and so that's how you build confidence. So it's really helping people understand you already have the confidence, you already have the answers. You just need the courage, and sometimes that's having a workplace culture that supports you to have the courage to have the leaders, the leadership that that you know emulates that and allows you to be bold in what you're doing. So having a strong company culture allows people to feel safe and seen and courageous enough to take steps where they will then develop their confidence.
Dr. Katie Ervin:Yeah, yeah. It's such important work that you're doing, because having that, you know, psychological safety and growth, mindset and all of those things that requires that goes into that work that you're doing does allow people to do bold things and to do scary things, and and I think it's it's such important work that that we need to do.
Jenna Washnieski:I agree. And to our point earlier like the more you get practice doing this at work, the better you're going to be having courageous conversations with your partner. Having, you know, courageous whatever the thing is like stepping into your goals outside of work, like you're going to realize like, oh crap, I can do this. And one of the things I do, I have my little like planner here every week. There's a thing in here it's like what are your wins this week? And for me it's just the regular practice of writing down things that felt really good, things where I felt brave, things that I mean I went to the DMV today and you better believe that's going on my list of wins today.
Jenna Washnieski:Yes, Right and sometimes it's just reminding you of how, how, how brave you are and how tenacious you are and how patient you are and how kind you are, and and those are the brave things that contribute to confidence.
Dr. Katie Ervin:Yeah, yeah, it's so important and I love all of this work you're doing it's. It's really exciting to watch and every time we talk I'm like, oh, I can't wait to see you do this and that and um. So I know you have a lot of projects going on um, things you're working on. Um, I've really enjoyed your podcast. It's coming back for season two, so can you talk a little bit about your podcast and and uh, where people can find it all that good stuff.
Jenna Washnieski:Yeah Well, thank you for listening. It's been fun. I love just saying words into a microphone and if people listen or not, great. There's just the practice of being able to get my ideas out verbally. That, I think, helps me at least solidify a lot of my concepts that I'm playing through. But yes, you're right, season three of the podcast comes out, uh, probably later this October.
Jenna Washnieski:But, um, it's really investigating. Like I said, this, this we talked about this um intersection of personal and professional development. Really looking at you know, how do these things like values and confidence and influence and consistency, how are these things showing up in my personal life and how are they showing up in my professional life and where do those mesh? And so it's a lot of looking at those things. I have guests coming on sharing their personal experiences of stuff. They've learned, failures, they've had advice, things they wish they would have known. And then I have just some episodes out there where I'm just chatting about stuff in my life, like I just posted one about the psychic I visited last week and what it taught me about confidence, and so every now and then there's just things that I feel like I want to share with the world and I jump on and share them.
Dr. Katie Ervin:That is fantastic, and I have not listened to that one yet. It's sitting there. I think I have one more before I get. My husband will bounce around between podcasts. I'm like I listen to mine in order. I'm very meticulous in how I do that and so I can't wait to hear that, because I know when we talked last time, you were telling me about the psychic, so I can't wait to hear about that experience.
Jenna Washnieski:Yeah, yeah, and one of the things I appreciate that we share is just our attunement to these like synchronicities and signs and and paying attention to them. Like I think some people think it's like woo, woo or whatever, but I do think that there's so much power in really really listening because I do believe that things are happening for us more often than we realize and being able to slow down and listen and notice. That is a really powerful, powerful tool.
Dr. Katie Ervin:Yeah, and I think the part to listen to that I mean I'm a firm believer in. You know, the universe is testing you and until you learn your lesson, you're going to keep being tested. And so Rob and I have been married 24 years and, you know, early in our marriage it was like why does this keep happening? It's like because we're not figuring this part, like we have this gap in our, you know, communication and until we fix that, we're going to keep coming back to this test. And then it's like, okay, we're going to master that and have another test, and we see that at work as well. It's like why? Why master that and have another?
Jenna Washnieski:test.
Dr. Katie Ervin:And we see that at work as well.
Jenna Washnieski:It's like why? Why does this keep happening to me? Well, you're not learning your lesson. Whatever it's supposed to be, yes, and and like what a what a joy to have someone alongside you who's willing to do that work and that growth, whether it's in your marriage or at work, to have the partnership at work, to be willing to be like okay, let's figure this out. Like we don't have all the answers, we're going to figure this out together.
Dr. Katie Ervin:Yeah, yeah, I will say Rob, probably at the beginning beginning came along kicking and screaming and now I've brought him over to the dark side. So he does training and development and um. So so I brought him over to the dark side, I fixed him. He used to not say the F word, he now says the F word and we talk about feelings and emotions all the time. That's wonderful.
Jenna Washnieski:Nice work, Katie.
Dr. Katie Ervin:One might say I didn't fix him with the F word, but I believe I did.
Jenna Washnieski:What I'm hearing you say is that you've made an impact.
Dr. Katie Ervin:Yes, and he has made me nicer and kinder and uh, you know. So so we're, we're about almost even there.
Jenna Washnieski:I love it. I love it yeah.
Dr. Katie Ervin:Yeah, well, I, we could talk for days, and every time we get together, we, we just keep going. But, um, you know, one of the final questions that I ask everybody on every show uh, everybody on every show I think this is just so important for us to share our journeys is to the level you're comfortable sharing? What is the biggest leadership or career misstep you've taken?
Jenna Washnieski:Yeah, I think for me it was. You know, when I started in that executive leadership role I was the president of the organization. I think I was believing that I needed to prove that I was deserving of being in that role, and because somehow I didn't believe that I was worthy of like, who am I to be in this role, they picked this like plop this girl out of Minneapolis and put her into Kansas City. Who do I think I am? And so that lack of belief in myself resulted in me being a version of myself that I thought other people wanted right, and so I lost touch with myself and all those wonderful, quirky things that made me me and I became really unhappy because I was being this non-Jenna person.
Jenna Washnieski:But the truth is and I think everyone needs to remember this is that I was specifically selected for that role because of those unique experiences and personality traits that I had. They wanted that from me. That's what was needed in the role at that time. They could have picked anybody else who was a little more polished, a little more knowledge of the corporate landscape, but they needed me at that time. So I think my biggest misstep was, you know, not taking time to ground myself on all those remarkable strengths and passions and traits that I was personally bringing to that role and instead I got caught up in comparing myself to other people or what I thought I was you know, quote supposed to be, which, honestly, was just based on all my own insecurities. So that was my biggest misstep was listening to the bullshit in my head and not believing that all of who I was was more than enough.
Jenna Washnieski:Yeah.
Dr. Katie Ervin:Yeah, remembering who the F you were who are you Exactly. Oh my gosh. Well, I have loved to learn more about your journey. Thank you so much for your time. I cannot wait for season three to come out of your podcast. I can't wait to be a guest. I know I'm scheduled to be a guest, but, more importantly, I am just so excited to continue to watch you thrive and grow and for us to connect and continue to learn from each other.
Jenna Washnieski:Yeah, and thank you, katie, so much for bringing me into your world and sharing your wisdom and for your friendship and for sharing all of this in your podcast with the world. I think it's so important.
Dr. Katie Ervin:It is my pleasure. I think I'm like you. I just like to just put stuff out there and you know, someone gave me great advice. I'm sure you've had the same advice Like you're not going to be everything for everyone, so you know, if we're speaking to a few people and make a difference, then that's what really matters, exactly, so awesome. Well, thank you everyone for joining us today and I will put all of Jenna's information in the show notes so you can connect and listen and all of those good things. And yeah, just thank you so much and thank you everyone for listening and I will talk to you next time on the Path to Leadership. Bye.
