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The Path To Leadership
We podcast about strong leaders, loyal employees, avoiding burnout, and raising profits building strong cultures. Everyone is a leader, but the path isn't always easy. Developing critical skills to build stronger, more successful and profitable organizations.
The Path To Leadership
Creating Inclusive Spaces: Lessons from Erica Kruckenberg
Join us as Erica Kruckenberg shares her inspiring journey from Texas to Kansas, starting from her impactful service in the Peace Corps in Uzbekistan to her dynamic roles in the corporate sector and education. Erica's philosophy, inspired by a mentor, of writing one's purpose in pen and the path in pencil underscores her approach to leadership and growth. Listen as Erica opens up about her advocacy against hunger, her pivotal career shifts, and the profound wisdom she has garnered along the way.
The episode also delves into the critical role of educational advocacy, especially for K-12 children in foster care and first-generation college students. Learn about the Kansas Promise Grant and its significance in offering debt-free education opportunities. Erica's experiences managing food pantries and initiating campus pantries to combat food insecurity highlight her dedication to creating supportive educational environments. As we explore Erica's passion for reading and personal growth through adversity, you'll be inspired by her resilience and the community-centric initiatives she champions.
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Hi everyone, welcome back to the Path to Leadership. I am super excited for my guest today. I can't wait to introduce her to you all and then share a little bit with you about what we've been learning together, and then also the things that I've learned from her. So, without further ado, hi Erica, how are you?
Erica Kruckenberg:Fantastic. How are you?
Dr. Katie:I overall really well. It seems to be allergy and cold season, which is always fun, absolutely.
Erica Kruckenberg:Always a party when the pollen flows in.
Dr. Katie:Right, right, necessary rain, but also it's like, can we tamp everything down please? That would be great. So, erica, before I tell everyone how we know each other and all that good stuff, will you introduce yourself just kind of, who you are, what you do, all of that good stuff?
Erica Kruckenberg:Absolutely. My name is Erica Preckenberg. I am a wife and a mom of two wonderful children. I currently reside in the wonderful state of Kansas, but originally from the great state of Texas, and my official job title, as we sit today, is training coordinator for Schwan's company. But have multiple other passions that I follow throughout the community and the state.
Dr. Katie:Yeah, I love that and we were so fortunate we met through Leadership Kansas, which I've teased on the program that I'm going to be having a lot of our really cool classmates in. So we're going to talk about that in just a second. But before we jump into that, can you tell us a little bit about kind of your career journey and whatever you're comfortable sharing there?
Erica Kruckenberg:Sure. So growing up in Texas, you feel football is king, oil is king, big hair and hairspray and I definitely fell in all of those categories, except for the cheerleading part. I did not wake up after birth cheerleading, so I did not check that box. However, after college, with a business degree, I thought that I would go into the business world and I had the opportunity first to go to the Peace Corps. I served in the Peace Corps in a former Republic of the Soviet Union, uzbekistan. Back in the day before Google Maps, I had to get a globe out to find Uzbekistan. But serving in the Peace Corps was one of the best things that could have happened to this Texas girl. It started my appreciation for what's really out there in the world and what people are going through.
Erica Kruckenberg:After returning from the Peace Corps, I worked in the corporate world for a number of years until, tragically, I lost my father, and that made me stop and take stock in where life is taking me and that changed my path to education.
Erica Kruckenberg:And when that changed to education, that opened my eyes to hungry students and hungry families, which then raised my awareness of hunger in our United States, which is not OK. My hashtag is hunger is unacceptable, with the U and the N capitalized, and that hunger impacts learning on a lot of different levels. On a lot of different levels. So that drove my passion in education while I was a teacher and then later as an administrator, to make sure that our families and our students are fed. After leaving K-12 education, moved into higher education where I had the opportunity to work in student success here in Kansas and excuse me sorry, that was that Paul and it's getting me even inside the building apparently was able to impact a lot of students who maybe didn't have a voice for themselves but really found the opportunity to advocate for students in that higher ed space. And then now and training and working with people in the corporate world again and then now I'm training and working with people in the corporate world again.
Dr. Katie:Yeah, I'm just my head is spinning. You know, I knew bits and pieces of this. The cool thing about Leadership Kansas is there's 40 of us and we're learning from each other. But a lot of times we're running and going and having kind of bus conversations, which is sometimes a challenge for me with my hearing aids. So sometimes I'm just smiling and nodding as if I can hear. And I knew bits and pieces of your story, but I didn't know all of this, so I'm just kind of soaking it in. Wow, that is an amazing path to get you to where you are today.
Erica Kruckenberg:Truly everything happens for a reason. You don't always understand the reason in the moment and it's taken a lot of years for me to be able just to pause and say okay. A very important person in my life, dr Holly Ferguson she serves as a superintendent of schools in Prosper, texas told me early on always write your purpose in pen and write your path in pencil, and that is huge for me. Write your purpose in pen, write your path in pencil, because you just never know where it's going to take you, and someday in this world we will teach the Ferguson Method. We will teach the Ferguson Method in leadership. We will teach the Ferguson method. We will teach the Ferguson method in leadership. We will teach the Ferguson method in higher education and for teachers. She's a phenomenal woman and a phenomenal mentor and a friend.
Dr. Katie:Oh my gosh, that just that gave me chills. I just had to write that down because I'm like that should be like plastered everywhere and such a good motto in life. You know, I one of my passions is letting people know like the path to leadership is messy and we're going to, we're going to take missteps. Other people are going to make decisions for us that we, like you said, don't understand at the time. Maybe what? Maybe they've made the wrong decisions and they'll understand it sometime. Maybe they've made the wrong decisions and they'll understand it sometime. But that's just a powerful thing to think about.
Erica Kruckenberg:I have it up in my desk here in the office here at Schwann's. I have it permanently inked on my body so I never forget. But yeah, it's powerful. If you ask my children, if you start to say it, they'll finish the statement. Because it's very, it's important, because you just never know. If you would have told me 20 years ago, 30 years ago oh Lord, I'm really making myself old that this is where I would be sitting now, I would have laughed at you, you know. But everything happens for a reason.
Dr. Katie:Yeah, yeah, it's, it's so true and and I I am adamant like the universe is going to deliver what it's supposed to. And you know, there's paths that we're supposed to listen to. And so sometimes, especially in my hardest times in my career, I've had to sit there and be like what are you trying to tell me? Like what message am I not getting here that I'm supposed to be getting? And that's humbling and sometimes difficult, especially when we're younger in our careers. But even sometimes, still today, I proudly I'm 48 years old, and sometimes it's like one of these days you're going to learn that lesson, sure sure, most recently I had a job change and was very, very happy in my career and didn't expect a job change.
Erica Kruckenberg:But I'm happy, getting happier, happier now. You know, and everything for a reason. I'm not real clear yet what the reason is. Every day it becomes a little bit more clear. Yeah, I'm not real clear yet what the reason is. Every day it becomes a little bit more clear. But you know, the opportunity to be part of Leadership Kansas. I know that a number of us in our team were able to join on the first try. It took me a number of tries to be part of the team and I was devastated every time I got the email no, not this time. No, not this time. But it was the right time for me to be in the group this time and so I was able to make those connections and yeah, it's the right time.
Dr. Katie:So, yeah, yeah, and you know thinking about that. What's so interesting is because I had never heard of Leadership Kansas before I started my company and then one of my friend's husband is an alumni in the program and she was like this is for you. And I'm like, eh, I don't know. And you know it's not wildly expensive but it's also not wildly inexpensive either. And so you know, when you're funding it whether you know it's I always tease in Leadership Kansas. It's like when everyone puts down their credit card, like I'm putting my credit, my personal credit card down, you said same as always.
Erica Kruckenberg:Yeah.
Dr. Katie:Yeah, and so it takes your breath away sometimes, but it's like, yes, when I when I reflect on the people in our class and the people that we've met and you know, I think we would have all been connected if we would have done it a couple years ago, but it feels like we're all in a really good spot in our lives, absolutely.
Erica Kruckenberg:And I think that if you were to pick us up in a bar, that none of us would pick each other up. I mean, imagine that If you think about the bus, but somehow, now that we know each other, we would totally pick each other up in. I mean imagine that if you think about the bus, but somehow, now that we know each other, we would totally pick each other up in a bar.
Dr. Katie:Yeah, yeah, that is so true and I think that's what I love. You know about any of these programs like this, where you know it's a cohort and you get entrenched. And it's funny because Bev, who is my mentor, said you know what You're going to, like everybody, you're going to love and have deep connections with some, and don't stress about that. And I think back to my sorority days in college. I will protect my sisters, I will be there for them, but they were just a group that we were just tighter, and it doesn't mean that I don't care for those people, it's just you make some really deep connections with people, and deep connections with people, like you said, that you would never, never sit with at a bar and talk to.
Erica Kruckenberg:Right.
Dr. Katie:Yeah, yeah, I, I, I think that is is really cool and, um, and as we kind of get to know each other, it's like we always tease. Emma on my team is an onion. We will just pull away layers and there's always something there, and I love onions, so I don't think it's a bad thing, but I feel like in our class that's happening.
Erica Kruckenberg:My husband can make an onion go with every meal he cooks. It blows my mind. I'm happy to eat it, I don't cook it, that's so funny.
Dr. Katie:I love it Well in parts of our conversations, because we are so lucky to you know, not just on the bus but in the communities that we're in, we're able to have important conversations, and a lot of the discussions that you and I have had, and even our small groups have had, is about acceptance and learning from people that are different than you, and you've kind of already talked about that with your Peace Corps experience and some of the other things that you've done, so you can. Can you talk about why that's so important to you and reflect on that a bit, you know?
Erica Kruckenberg:being different is so very important because if we were all the same, life would be boring. Life is not black and white. Life is full of color. Sometimes there's a little bit more yellow than there is purple, or there's more red than there is green.
Erica Kruckenberg:But we need to learn to embrace our differences and it might be differences in education level. It might be differences in the communities that you grow up in. It might be differences in the music that you listen to. It doesn't always have to be just political or sexual, which seems like what we only hear about in the news or, you know, in the newspaper, whatever, wherever you retrieve your news.
Erica Kruckenberg:But embracing those differences and being willing to sit and listen and to be able to sit and listen to get information, not to sit and listen to respond, which is so hard for people to do, to do In my current position now, it's exciting to look out over the fields of cubes that we sit in, the different cultures that are here in the offices, but then when I go out on the line where we're making the pizzas, that we have 14 different languages going on and it's exciting just to hear if I can turn the sound down of the machines and just hear the languages going. Some like to learn visually, with pictures, some like to learn with words, some just like to watch, you know, and so that translates very well into you know, everyday society, and we need to be able to embrace everyone's differences.
Dr. Katie:Yeah, yeah, and that's something I'm wildly passionate about as well. And I have a good friend here in Kansas City. His name's Andre Davis and I met him. Gosh, now it's been four years ago, which seems like it was just yesterday.
Dr. Katie:But you know, one of the things he told me was you got to be comfortable, being uncomfortable, which is something we kind of roughly learned growing up. But there's times where it just will hit you in the face and and he will say you need to walk into a room and sit with people who don't look like you. You need to strike up conversations with people that maybe you wouldn't in a bar. That's not how he said it, but I mean it's the exact same thing. And so you know, our first day of leadership, kansas, it's like, you know, you walk into a room and you just assume, okay, well, you know everyone's kind of here we go, we're similar because we're here.
Dr. Katie:But I mean I immediately go over to people who don't look like me or who you know maybe I feel like might have different experiences. You know, when you walk in and you see Blake, who is going to be on the podcast in the future, I mean tattooed up and in cowboy boots and all of this, all of this, and then you get to talking to him and he's a superintendent, it's just, it's really. He's a principal, it's really cool, he's a superintendent.
Dr. Katie:Okay, did you see my brain like click, and then it's like panic no click, but it's. It's learning from all of that, I think, is so, so powerful. Yes.
Erica Kruckenberg:I think that you had um I think it was Isaac Collins on early on and you two talked about that very thing and I thought that was very powerful as well. But um Blake really breaks the mold. Um, I think his students this year are calling him Sigma Soup or Soup Sigma. You know, with all the languages that the young people are calling, it makes me so happy. When I was in K-12, some of the older principals would be like would you hire a teacher that has tattoos?
Erica Kruckenberg:As I look at the tattoos on my body and I'm like tattoos do not define your ability. As I look at the tattoos on my body and I'm like tattoos do not define your ability. They're an expression. You know, I probably would prefer that they not be inappropriate tattoos, but if they were, then I would ask them to cover those up. But you know it's the person. There's a story behind Blake's tattoos. There's a story behind everyone's tattoos. You don't just walk in and go stick something on me. You know everyone's tattoos. You don't just walk in and go stick something on me. You know there's this. Everyone has a story and you've got to get to know the person to know the story and in order to get to know the person you have to be, like you said, uncomfortable and patient, and listen.
Dr. Katie:Yeah, yeah, and I think the key there is truly the listening to, to hear and to connect and not to listen to respond. And I had to learn that kind of earlier in my career because I grew up in a house where it was like the loudest voice, the loudest voice and you talked over each other. And you know, when you get out into the real world and you realize that's really rude and inconsiderate, and so there'll be times still today where I want to add something to a conversation and then I will actually in my head say does that add value? Is that necessary to say are you just trying to one up, or you know, and sometimes we're just adding because we're like, oh, I want to show that we have a connection and that we're bonding. But then sometimes, oh, I want to show that we have a connection and that we're bonding. But then sometimes, especially like I said earlier in my career, it was always like but I did this and I did this, and that's something really important as we're trying to make connections to do as well.
Erica Kruckenberg:Absolutely. It's sort of the look at me society.
Dr. Katie:Yeah, yeah, yeah. Society yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. And one of the other important pieces to that, which I think is so critical, is finding your voice, and you really advocate for that. For those who maybe can't speak up or won't speak up, that can be really scary and really challenging. So how have you done this throughout your career? How have you supported people or empowered people to find their voice?
Erica Kruckenberg:So a couple of different ways. I serve as an educational advocate for the state of Kansas and that's for children in K-12 that are in our foster care system. They may not have their parents, may have signed away their parental rights or there's a myriad of different reasons, and so I step in and I make sure that if they have an IEP, that the school district and by no fault of the school district, but there's a lot going on in a school district but I want to make sure that that student is getting enough of whatever they need. So that's time spent reading through that IEP, getting to know that student and making sure that the services that that student is needing are being provided. And that's different from all all each student, rather sorry. Some of them have learning disabilities. Some of them have some emotional disabilities. Some of them have learning disabilities. Some of them have some emotional disabilities. Some of them, you know, might be in a wheelchair depends, and they're for me. They're spread over mcpherson county, saline county, um. Some down into sedgwick county, um. I'm happy to drive as far as I can as my job will allow, but, um, someone to be a voice for that student, for that child whose parent is no longer there and that foster parent may have multiple children in the house and doesn't have a teacher background like I do. That can tear an IEP apart to make sure that the services are being provided. So that's one avenue.
Erica Kruckenberg:Another avenue is the financial piece. While I was in higher ed right now, kansas has a phenomenal program called the Kansas Promise Grant. If you are in higher education, in a technical college or in a junior college, a community college, the Kansas Promise Grant literally will have your student with no debt, literally will have your student with no debt, and so those students need to have someone give their voice to say I want to do this. Well, if you come from, if you're a first generation and you don't know how to navigate that, you have to engage those students and ask those questions. Have you thought about?
Erica Kruckenberg:But if you haven't started to build a relationship with the students before that, then that's an awkward conversation. You don't just walk in and go, hey, can you pay for college? Yeah, so you have to have built the relationship, either on an introduction day or you know if you have a barbecue, social or whatever putting yourself out there in the uncomfortable space, like we mentioned. So you're a familiar face. You're an approachable face. They call me Mama K because I'm silly, but I'm also. If you're doing something you shouldn't, I'm going to call you on it and be like really.
Dr. Katie:Yeah.
Erica Kruckenberg:What could we have done differently? So I like to be that voice of reason and I also will fight for you like a mama bear if somebody's messing with my kids.
Dr. Katie:I love that. Yeah, I am with you and I think it is so important. I mean those connections, that relationship, everything is so important Because then, especially when they're not meeting the standards, you're able to and I just literally talked about this the other day when I was hosting a virtual session it's the more you know someone, you can remove the behavior from the person and you can say and understand like they're going through a lot and this is probably not their best self or their best day. However, how can we support them and love on them and care for them and give them grace, the grace that we would want to have?
Erica Kruckenberg:Absolutely. My very, very first question, anytime I have somebody in my office good, bad or ugly is what'd you have for breakfast or what'd you have for lunch? Because if they haven't eaten, your conversation is going to go nowhere fast. And so maybe it's a pop tart, maybe it's a muffin, maybe it's a peanut butter and jelly sandwich. Let's share that together, and then we'll have the conversation. Good, bad or ugly, because they may not be their best self, like you mentioned, because they're hungry.
Dr. Katie:Right, right, and that is a privilege that a lot of us don't think about. A lot of us don't think about food insecurities, and it's not just for those that are homeless. I mean, there's a lot of people that are having to make decisions between medicine and food, and this isn't a new thing. I know that it's a hot political topic, whatever, we're not going to not even touch that, but it's bigger than that. This has been going on forever. So can you talk a little bit about your passion in food insecurities and the work you do around this? Sure?
Erica Kruckenberg:absolutely. When we were in Texas, I had the opportunity to be the executive director of what was then called Bethlehem Place. It's now Neighbors Nourishing Neighbors in a town called Prosper, texas, and it was a small food pantry at the time. The people in charge have grown it substantially, blessed by many deep-pocketed donors within the community, which is great, but the food insecurity even in very wealthy areas is there. You mentioned picking between food and medicine. There are people picking between their electric bill and food. They're picking between gas to put in their car to go to work and food, and if we're not fulfilled with food, we're not going to make good decisions, which is then increasing the number of people that are going to be making bad choices and possibly getting arrested or, you know, doing something that might not be the best decision there. So my efforts to help with food insecurity when I was working for Salina College, we started a pantry called Gear Grub and we were able to utilize Salina Leadership Salina I believe it was the class of 2021. We were able to utilize Salina Leadership Salina I believe it was the class of 2021. They used it as their project. They wrote the grant and they got our shelving for us and found donations for refrigeration and freezer. It was fantastic and the students utilized it immensely. Worked with our local food pantry to get fresh vegetables for the students, but again it worked back to building the relationship with the students of not regular pasta but the brown stuff.
Erica Kruckenberg:Help me here the wheat. There you go. Wheat Nobody likes wheat. So sometimes people donate things that don't taste very good. So we try to give them stuff that tastes good, is very good, so we try to give them stuff that tastes good.
Erica Kruckenberg:Um, but also if you're donating um macaroni and cheese, um, try to donate shells and cheese. Don't donate craft macaroni and cheese nothing against craft, but you need milk and butter to make that. People don't always have that, so make it. They might not have refrigeration. Also, think about if you're donating canned goods, to buy a can opener, because you might not have a can opener available if you're in a homeless situation or if you're without housing to be able to open those canned goods.
Erica Kruckenberg:So we also, throughout my time in different food situations, helped expand the knowledge in preparing the food, because you make the assumption that everybody knows how to cook. Not everybody knows how to cook. Everybody might know how to eat. So we were able to put together some fantastic little buckets of different spices, some garlic powder, some paprika, some cumin, just different things, and so they're able to select those, with some guidance if they wanted, and so that they knew how to jazz up some green beans or jazz up some stove stop stuffing or hamburger helper, so it's not just blah out of a box so, but also, at the same time, you need money for that, and there's no shame in my game. I'll ask you hey, could you make a donation? Because we could use the support and this is what your dollar will go for. And I'm happy to list out whatever we were working on.
Dr. Katie:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, and I think you know, as you know, when we're talking about finding voice and talking about food insecurities, I'm going to take us on kind of a slight turn. I'm going to try not to get fully on my soapbox, but I feel like you will really appreciate. My take on this is I really struggle in not just the workplace, in education as well, because people will say, well, there's a skills gap, or you know the royal, they, they can't, or you know something like that, and I, I really struggle with that because I feel like there's not a skills gap, there is a opportunity and grace gap.
Dr. Katie:I think that if someone doesn't look like us, or someone makes us uncomfortable, or someone looks hard for us that we are so easy to dismiss, well, they, all of them, they can't be helped, or they don't want help, or they did this to themselves, and that can be played into a hundred different scenarios. But it just makes me so angry when we talk about access and opportunity and if anybody wants to reach out to me, I'll give you my whole thoughts on bias and hiring, because that's another one that just makes me angry. You'll hire my 22-year-old son, who's phenomenal and lovely, but you won't hire someone that doesn't look like him because they look hard, which is BS. Sorry, I'm getting on a soapbox, but I think you've probably seen it in your life too, where it's like oh well, they look hard, so I'm just going to make myself feel better by saying that they wouldn't want my help anyways.
Erica Kruckenberg:And then I would say they, they wouldn't want my help anyways. And then I would say I would challenge them back and say, did you ask? Right? How do you know? Right, because then I could say you look like a royal peep just by the outside, you know. Oh well, those look like gucci shoes, but are they real? Are you? Just you know? Are you faking it? Because so you can fit in with the right people, because that ones that look hard have more experience than you have in your little finger, I mean, and you're missing out. Everybody has a story, just like we talked about earlier. Everybody has challenges, but some of the greatest people I've ever met you would never guess. Yeah, yeah, ever, ever, ever.
Dr. Katie:Yeah, yeah, ever, ever, ever, yeah. And I really challenge and question the people that have to do such overt action. You know that look at me standing in front of you doing all this greatness and it's like, well, what are you doing behind the scenes? And maybe they are, maybe they are. It's very possible. So I'm not dismissing everyone, but I know like in our Leadership of Kansas class, we were talking about a really affluent and impactful Kansas City person that a lot of people have a very negative take on him and he owns one of the local sports teams. If you're in Kansas City, you probably know who I'm talking about. I'm not going to go into it, uh, but um, behind the scenes, he's so wildly generous, he is so impactful, he gives back so much and there's never you never see him standing holding a giant check that says look at me, um, even his foundation doesn't do that and he continues to be so philanthropic and so giving, despite the crap that's talked about him.
Dr. Katie:Right, right, right. And that's where I really struggle with. It's great. If you have a gala and you raise a million dollars, I will come to your gala. I love it. It makes me blissfully happy. I think that's fantastic. I do have a secret dream one day to just have a paddle at a gala and be able to like buy a private jet for 20, to like go to Tahiti. Uh, one day I'm going to get there. Um, and that's not the audaciousness I'm talking about, but I'm talking about, um, you know the others where it's like they're standing up in public and flaunting their goodness and then in private, it's like but are you? But are you?
Erica Kruckenberg:So when we talk about sitting with people that aren't like us or that might look different, it's getting us out of the comfort zone, right, our personal comfort zone, maybe our professional comfort zone, and, um, I think of a quote, um, about comfort zones, that a comfort zone is a beautiful place but nothing ever grows there I'm just gonna have a page of quotes from you I, I you've got to get out of that comfort zone, otherwise you're just your garden's not gonna nothing's gonna grow.
Dr. Katie:I love that.
Erica Kruckenberg:I love that.
Dr. Katie:I'm writing that down Again. I'm just going to have a page of quotes from you. Well, and you know, as we kind of pivot a little bit, a fun fact about you, not just that you love Bon Jovi, which is a really fun fact, and one of your tattoos is Bon Jovi lyrics. Right, uh-huh.
Erica Kruckenberg:Some of them and his initials are on my arm and my husband is okay with it. Fact in one of your tattoos is Bon Jovi lyrics. Right, Some of them and his initials are on my arm and my husband is okay with it. But before we talk about the next thing, Bon Jovi has a passion for feeding people as well. He has the Jon Bon Jovi Soul Foundation and he has a kitchen. There are no prices listed on their menu. When you go, you pay what you can and if you can't pay, it's okay. He'll ask you to. You know, do some dishes or weed the garden, because it's a farm-to-table type setting, which I think it's. I mean, I get goosebumps thinking about I took a funny story.
Dr. Katie:I took a $200 Uber ride out to that when we were in New York one trip to see, trip to see my brother, um, just so I could go to the restaurant, really hoping to see John there, but he wasn't there that day, Right, so he's fantastic, yeah, yeah, and, and he's one of those I think that, um, you know, humbly serves and I think, yeah, I, I loved John Bon Jovi before I knew all the rest of the stories, you know, because I'm 48 and we grew up in the Bon Jovi era Absolutely, but then to see even more of the greatness that he does and the give back makes you love him even more, 100%, yeah. So the other thing not only do you love Jon Bon Jovi, but you also love, love, love, love. Is there a word big enough to tell about your passion for books?
Erica Kruckenberg:No, all things books, all things reading. If you do not currently, in your wallet, have your local library card, you need to get your local library card. Your tax dollars are paying for it. You need to use it. But I love to read, love, love, love to read. If I am not reading three or four books at one time, my husband knows that I'm not feeling well.
Dr. Katie:Right. So how many books are you? What are you reading right now? What? How many books are you reading?
Erica Kruckenberg:Well, I have four books going right now, but the one that is really interesting is called Life on the Grocery Frontline. It's by Adam Katz and it is about a cashier at a grocery store during the pandemic, during COVID, and his perspective on people and because he was considered an essential worker and how people behaved and how they looked down on him and how some people looked down on him and he was on his feet and you know it's a great read and I can't recommend it enough. All my books, there's very few that I won't finish. I'm going to see it to the end. There was a couple scary books. I'm not a scary movie girl, I'm a scary book girl often, but the House of Leaves terrified me and so I couldn't let my daughter finish that one. But then I'm also reading a book called Glue by Ann Pham and it's about project leaders and engaging teams trying to work for some project here at work with that and that's an exciting one. But my favorite author in the whole wide world is CJ Box and he used to work in tourism in Wyoming and then has since started writing books about a game warden in Wyoming who connects with a former SEAL team operator and all their adventures. That happen and I think we're on book 25. They come out end of February, first of March every year and I can't recommend CJ Bach's books enough.
Erica Kruckenberg:Now coming in the mail this week I did buy this book. It's called the Small and the Mighty, by Sharon McCone. It's the 12 unsung Americans who changed the course of history from the founding to the civil rights movement. My friend, laura Waits, who's an immigration attorney she was my paralegal teacher back in Texas many years ago. She's now out of North Carolina doing phenomenal work with immigration out of Honduras and she recommended this book. And if Laura's recommending it it's going in my cart, but I'm excited to read about that. And then patiently waiting on the list from the library here in Salina is Ask Not, which is about the wives of the Kennedys. Oh my gosh, uh-huh.
Dr. Katie:Wow, I am fascinated just even by the like scope. I is there ever like a genre that you're, other than maybe some scary ones like you will? Just, you love a good book I don't.
Erica Kruckenberg:I don't want a pigeonhole, just like I want to meet and talk to every person. I want to read all the books too, because you just don't know what you're going to learn and when you're going to need it. When can you apply it?
Dr. Katie:Yeah, and you know I haven't done it in so long and I need to get better at it. I love going to bookstores and just thumbing through and I know that is something you do regularly, especially in Leadership Kansas. You're always like there's a bookstore in the corner and in Salina, what is that? Really amazing bookstore we went to in Salina.
Erica Kruckenberg:It's fantastic. It's the Red Fern Bookstore and they're having an author event coming up the beginning of the month but they're working with students from Kansas, wesleyan, one of the local universities, so they're newer to the community, but they've really engaged themselves and they do wonderful events. Can't say newer to the community, but they've really engaged themselves and they do wonderful events. Can't say enough about the Red Fern and it's new books. And we have a great used bookstore in McPherson Twice Told Tales and the books change all the time. And what's great with that small business in McPherson is that she posts. The owner posts how many books she needs to sell each month to help her as a small business owner sustain. And so that kind of drives you to, oh, should I just get this one or this one? And you see that and I'm like I'll get this one and nine more because I don't want this not be here.
Dr. Katie:Yes, that is genius.
Dr. Katie:I love that this not be here. Yes, that is genius. I love that. That is really cool. I know I'm looking around my office and I just have stacks and stacks and stacks of books and I know that's something you last session. You're like, what are you reading? I'm like I have a stack and then I'm like here, look at my Amazon cart, because someone will tell me something and I will throw it in my Amazon cart and I'm like I've got to finish some that I have. But I also don't want to lose the amazing ones that have been shared with me. Um one that I think you will love, um one of my truly most favorite people here in Kansas city and just in the world in general, dr Kirsten Brown personally. She wrote a book called delivering dignity a guide to cultivating culturally competent organizations. It's a beautiful, beautiful book, like just visually beautiful, but it's it's. She tells the stories and it's about doing the work um to cultivate um diversity and openness and connections in your organization. It's, it's great. I've read it twice now.
Erica Kruckenberg:Well, and you also have, through your husband, an author in the family to. Your father-in-law is quite the writer. I enjoyed reading his books. After two sessions ago I ordered and read those books Historical fiction.
Dr. Katie:That will make him so happy. Yes, randall Irvin, e-r-v-i-n. He retired, he taught at Kaskaskia college in illinois for ever and then he retired. And then he's like I have all these books in me and I mean you can attest they are not. I mean they are harry potter thick books and they're good they are. They just roll out of him and they are their historical fiction and they just roll out of him. And my sister-in-law also is a huge history buff and she works for a community college also in Illinois and, yeah, he's always writing something.
Dr. Katie:He's the one that inspired me, not just to write my book, but when I was writing my dissertation. He's like I'm like imposter syndrome, panicking, and he was the very first person to read my very first draft of my dissertation. I didn't trust anybody else and I can feel the emotion of sitting in the living room with the stack of paper and him reading it. And he's so kind and it was so great for him to be the first person to read it Because once my doc committee got ahold of it they ripped it to shreds.
Erica Kruckenberg:If I ever hear about an APA manual again, I will vomit. I'm losing footnotes.
Dr. Katie:I know, I know Well, but you read so much. When's your book coming out? I?
Erica Kruckenberg:know Well, but you read so much. When's your book coming out? No, you're funny, not this week, not this week. I have the opportunity or the pleasure right now working for Schwann's, and we have the world's largest freezer here and it's automated completely. It's dark, unless there's a problem and they have to turn the lights on, so I'm thinking that might work well as a murder mystery, because we could hide bodies in that freezer someplace. Nobody would know. My boss just looks at me like who did I hire? It's right there on the resume and Joy's reading. So there you go.
Dr. Katie:He's like change the name, change the name, protect the innocent. Sure, no problem, I love that. Oh my gosh, we could talk for hours. I, I'm I know I'm biased to the leadership Kansas, but I mean, I have, I love you, I have loved meeting you, I've loved um, I I'm so enriched by our conversations every time we spend time together. So well, the final question I ask everybody, on every show, to the level you're comfortable sharing, what's the biggest leadership or career misstep that you've taken?
Erica Kruckenberg:Wow, I would be lying to your face if I told you that I have never taken a career misstep or had a big leadership boo-boo. But I think if I could pick the one that I would want other people to hear and learn from my boo-boo would be to never, ever, take it personal. My career misstep was that a few years ago careers ago felt like it was an attack on my person and you have to separate that. And I feel like that misstep set me back where I could have grown from it and let it send me forward. So maybe not a misstep, but maybe a mistake might be a better definition. So to not to know that, although it feels very personal personal in the moment that it's not that you take it. You know, gather up your box of goodies, sit in the car, have a good cry, drive really fast, do whatever that's you need to do, but don't take it personal. Let it lead you forward, not backwards. Fail forward, don't fail backwards.
Dr. Katie:Yeah, yeah, that's a. That's a big and powerful one, and I think, even when we know better, it's hard sometimes to do that and to remind ourselves like everything happens for a reason. It's not me, it's the universe. What's going on? Fun, kind of. On a similar note, early in my career I had a boss pull me into his office and said I don't know who told you that you're the most important person in the world. But you're not. Not. Everything is about you. I was like, well, you could say it nicer, but I do appreciate you saying it.
Erica Kruckenberg:Did you just want to go liar, liar pants on fire? Yes, I am.
Dr. Katie:No, I just cried, which you know it's like, and I wasn't crying because I was sad. I was crying because I was angry and because I couldn't tell him everything that I thought about him. Um, but even still today, like I still will say that to myself, like it's not always about you, it's not everything's not about you. You know every, not everything happens because or in spite of, and that's hard to cause. We're so important to so many people and so sometimes that's hard to digest. Sure, absolutely.
Erica Kruckenberg:Yeah. So I want to leave you with one last quote. Okay, you ready for this? Okay, I'm ready. Okay, if you don't take the risk, you'll lose the chance. I love that you got to take the risk.
Dr. Katie:I love that. I'm just like I don't even know which one of these amazing quotes is going to be the title of the podcast, because there's so much greatness. Maybe it'll just be so much greatness. Well, truly thank you for spending time today sharing your story and your passions and everything with us. I'm really thankful for you. I cannot believe we only have a couple months left of leadership Kansas. It's gone so fast. It's so much work and it's very intense in the moment, but I would never trade the experience for anything in the world.
Erica Kruckenberg:It's been phenomenal and thank you, Katie, for all your work. You're doing great, great, great things and giving opportunities for people that wouldn't have it otherwise. You're really making a difference in the world.
Dr. Katie:Thank you, I appreciate it. Oh, okay, Before I start crying because I love you so much, I'm just going to tell everyone thank you for joining us and I will see you next time on the Path to Leadership. Bye, everyone.
