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The Path To Leadership
We podcast about strong leaders, loyal employees, avoiding burnout, and raising profits building strong cultures. Everyone is a leader, but the path isn't always easy. Developing critical skills to build stronger, more successful and profitable organizations.
The Path To Leadership
Unleashing the Power of Emotional Intelligence in Leadership with David Brzozowski
Emotional intelligence is the secret sauce of superb leadership! Join me and David Brzozowski from TalentSmart EQ as we explore the transformative power of these crucial skills. Through personal anecdotes and David's expert lens, we unravel the four core competencies of emotional intelligence that any leader needs to continue to work on.
David's career has been a journey of unique experiences, from the precision-driven world of accounting to the spontaneous stage of acting, making pit stops in retail and entertainment. Sharing his journey, he highlights the pivotal role emotional intelligence played in each transition, aiding in the discovery of new passions and guiding his steps to TalentSmart. David and I also tackle the significance of emotional intelligence in today's ever-changing work landscape, discussing how tapping into these skills can help navigate career shifts with confidence and a sense of true purpose.
As we wrap up our conversation, it's clear that emotional intelligence is more than just a buzzword—it's a "power skill" that strengthens our professional and personal lives. We're all on this EQ journey together, and it's a continuous path of growth and learning. So, if you're ready to amplify your leadership and connect on a deeper level, make sure to join him for TalentSmart's upcoming LinkedIn Live event.
Connect with David at: https://www.linkedin.com/in/davidbrzozowski/
Attend TalentSmart Live events at: https://www.linkedin.com/company/talentsmart/events/
Follow Catalyst Development on LinkedIn @catalystdevelopment, @drkatieervin, @jennascott
www.cdleaders.com
Learn more about Supervisor 101 at www.cdleaders.com/supervisor101
Learn about LEADERs Institute at www.katieervin.com/leaders
Theme music by Emma Jo https://emmajo.rocks/
Hi everyone. Welcome back to the Path to Leadership you all. I am so excited. I know I say this every time for every guest because I love doing the podcast so much, but this first time I'm about to introduce you to literally. I saw him speak about a year ago and as soon as he was done speaking, rushed the stage and said you're now my best friend. I'm thrilled to introduce you all to David. Hey, david.
David Brzozowsi:Hello, and yes, that was a great rush because we have since then just had such a great connection from across the country. It's been great.
Dr. Katie Ervin:Yeah, it has been amazing and I can't wait to share with people a little bit about what you do and kind of what we've done together and why I just love you and and talent smart. So before I go all the way down a rabbit hole of of just showering you with with love and adoration, can you tell me a little bit about who you are and what you do?
David Brzozowsi:Absolutely so. David Brzezowski is how you say my last name. I am the senior director of training and operations for delivery at talent smart E Q. So talent smart is based in San Diego I happen to be based in the Pittsburgh area because I kind of travel all over the place and basically what I do is I not only facilitate our training programs that are based in emotional intelligence, but I also oversee all the programming that's coming in about who's going to go where, how we're going to get it done, and we serve really. I mean, when you think about the clients we serve, it's everybody anywhere from private companies to health and wellness to sporting organizations. You know, you name it, we are. We are out there too. So that's, that's kind of what I do, and it gets to be on exciting podcasts like this with you.
Dr. Katie Ervin:I love it and it's funny. You talk about talent smart like that, because you all really do serve everybody and, like with catalysts, people will always say you know who's your ideal client. It's like anyone who wants to be a stronger leader is really that ideal client and it's really the same for you all at talent smart it's. You know, when you talk about emotional intelligence, it ties to everything, not just about being a leader but being a human.
David Brzozowsi:Yeah, that's. You said that so well because people often say, where does it fit? And I always say, if it's everywhere, because it's a foundational skill that everybody really can use for whatever solutions you're looking for. So, like you're in an organization, you know a corporate world and you're trying to solve for communication skills or for better leadership, like you all do, a catalyst, this foundational piece of the puzzle because it's a skill helps to build on everything else that you're trying to bring in.
David Brzozowsi:I come from and I think you know this from the corporate world. I was in learning and development and organizational development for nearly two decades before I joined talent smart, which is coming up on three and a half years, and I never had this type of grounding, because what I think and see with organizations is when you can refer back to what you know about your own emotional intelligence, it can then help you on what's the next skill I'm trying to build and the next skill that I'm trying to improve. So that's, I think, the beauty of it and I know that that's you and I have talked about that that it is so foundational, like I don't have to say I'm trying to solve for this, it's what do I bring in to help me always solve for anything that I need to have a solution for.
Dr. Katie Ervin:Yeah, yeah and I'm not sure I've ever told you this my 19 year old daughter. When she was a senior in high school, she was writing in scholarship letters and she talked about the importance that emotional intelligence has played in her life. And I laugh because I'm like, oh my gosh, you can tell that you've been raised by someone who does leadership leadership training, but I also think how powerful if high school students understood emotional intelligence it really is. I think, as you said, that foundational skill yeah.
David Brzozowsi:It would be so nice if you and I think that this is something it's on our page is always like what's next? Right? We have some universities that utilize some of our programming and our assessments and our book. I just think it would be so more powerful. For in high school, how do you start thinking about that? Because you're still developing your personality, so why not develop your emotional intelligence along the same path? And, as I'm understanding who I am as a person, how do I help myself with better emotional intelligence? Of kudos to your daughter, that's awesome and, yes, you're right, because she is your daughter. But, like I think that's what's great is when somebody brings it home and talks about it doesn't try to throw it down somebody's throat, but starts talking about how to do something a little bit more effectively. How's that working for you? And you can have those conversations with middle scholars and high schoolers.
Dr. Katie Ervin:And I'm going to take us, keep taking us down this road, but then I'm going to pull us back. But what I love about emotional intelligence that I think people don't know is so often people will say why can't read a room? Emotional intelligence, I can read a room and it's like, oh no, emotional intelligence is so much bigger than just reading a room. There's actually four pieces to it, right?
David Brzozowsi:So true, that's one small component within one of the four skills right and just kind of level. If you don't mind me just sharing with everybody.
David Brzozowsi:So, the four skills. So you have two that are personal, the personal competencies, which are self-awareness and self-management. So what do I know about me and how do I manage anything about what I'm aware of? But then you get to the social competencies and that's where, as you mentioned, social awareness it's not just reading the room, but it's what am I reading and how does that affect my self-management as well. But the other social competence is relationship management. So you culminate all these to be able to say if I can be a little bit more self-aware and if I can self-manage myself along the process and then throw in being more socially aware, to understand what's going on with the people I'm working with, I can probably build more effective relationships all around.
David Brzozowsi:Not easy, not easy, and I'm going to quote one of my peers not easy, but it's simple but not easy.
Dr. Katie Ervin:That is so true. That is so true. So, okay, I will get us back on track, which is hard because I, like in meander, I love all of this stuff. I'm especially emotional intelligence in the workplace and all the stuff. So, but so you talked about being in the corporate world and and being at talent smart, so can you tell us a little bit more about your career journey? How did you like the?
David Brzozowsi:talent, smart. I know I had a very interesting background and journey, so I will give you all the details. But I went to college for accounting and finance.
Dr. Katie Ervin:Oh my gosh.
David Brzozowsi:And I you may not have been and then got out of college and couldn't find a job. Because here's what the people in the accounting world said is You're gonna be really bored here. You actually have a personality and and this is back in the day where before accountants really they didn't, they just sat behind their desk, right. So I went into retail, which was kind of perfect for me because I was working with people, did that for quite a while and when I was getting a little burnt out I had always dabbled in the entertainment industry. So I decided to Hi, tall it up to New York City and I broke into the entertainment world as an actor, singer, dancer, did mainly stage work, did a little bit of TV and film, and I did that a little bit between New York and LA.
David Brzozowsi:But then, as I was realizing that you know she's not always just show when the business was getting a little bit too much, I then fell into learning and development because I had always had a side job when I didn't have like a gig that was paying me and I usually was the go-to person to train if I was in a restaurant, right, train the new waiters, train the new bartenders. And so I fell into that, and it's so such a cool experience that I loved helping people Do better what they did, so I started doing that. So, a little over 20 years ago, learning and development. And then, during the pandemic, the company I was working for, unfortunately, as a retailer, and I was the director of learning, development and organizational development had a hard time because what we know about the pandemic is a shutdown almost all of the brick-and-mortar Retellers around gosh soap many places.
David Brzozowsi:We struggled, my department was Decleted and I was sitting on my back porch during the Pandemic when nothing was open, thinking what am I gonna do? And lo and behold, townsmar was looking for somebody on the east side of the Mississippi because the company had never done Any sort of virtual programming. Everything was in person.
Dr. Katie Ervin:So the aha moment was.
David Brzozowsi:So the east coast is now wanting Zoom classes at 7 30 in the morning, their time, which was 4 30, so getting somebody to actually Come on board. And so I came through the process and I will tell you that you, because I think of my eclectic background and it was something different that the organization was looking for. You know, academic from that perspective, don't have a sociology or a psychology or you know or anything of that, but I came from a very different angle. So what I've been able to see is you're being able to kind of everybody in a different perspective, because I a lot of times Can speak, talk about from the experience, about how it actually Activates in the world.
David Brzozowsi:So that's how I landed at town smart almost three and a half years ago, but it was in 2020 when I started and it was all virtual. I didn't meet my first person from the company in person for 10 months. Oh my gosh, we're all locked out.
Dr. Katie Ervin:That's why you're turning right well, and what a perfect illustration of Exactly what I want this podcast to be, which is about you know, the petership and I. Once path is different and sometimes we start going down a path and it's either the right path but the wrong time, or the wrong path, and and sometimes we just have to sit back and listen to the universe and it will pull us into where we're supposed to be.
David Brzozowsi:Yeah, that's how you said that, because that's pretty much what my journey was about. I, you know, when I knew that I'd kind of like Oversaying my welcome and whatever I was doing, it was time to rethink what my path was gonna look like always very planful, I mean. I'm not a person would just quit and be like, okay, what am I doing? It really was a planful journey to get to the next piece and I really had to kind of soul. So, and I will say also that's using emotional intelligence, that's being self-aware enough To say I'm not enjoying this anymore, I'm not getting out of it. What I may be used to and you can figure out, or there are things that you can do to reinvigorate yourself. But then when you realize that you're kind of on the bit, I say to anybody you know, go for.
David Brzozowsi:This younger generation that I love so much is doing is there asking themselves what do I really want to do? Just because I went to college doesn't mean I have to do this thing. And I'm a perfect example of that and I'm a baby boomer. So not a lot of baby boomers did what I did. Well, I just can't get my HLA, didn't I put it? But you know, it's one of those things where it's been healthy for me and I've seen others do the same thing but I find that to be a part of emotional intelligence to say what do I need from me, what am I aware?
Dr. Katie Ervin:Yeah, yeah, I love it and don't feel bad. I tell people I'm 48. All the time I'm, I'm, I'm proud of all the years that are underneath my belt absolutely.
David Brzozowsi:We don't get to be who we are without it.
Dr. Katie Ervin:Right, right. Well, and I have to say, I love it.
David Brzozowsi:Thank you for the glass.
Dr. Katie Ervin:I was gonna say not everyone will see all the video, but they'll see clips of the video. And not only are you drinking out of the Kansas City wine glass drinking water, it's in the middle of the day drinking water drinking water.
Dr. Katie Ervin:But also I am lucky because we met as I was writing my book you might be an asshole, but it might not be your fault and I Very quickly was like I need you to read this book for me because the character in my book goes through this self-awareness journey of Is he a jerk or is he not? And and I really to bring emotional intelligence through the book, and so I love that that you read it, that you were one of my advanced readers and you're quoted on the book jacket, so yeah, it's behind you to my other favorite book, which is Emotional intelligence.
David Brzozowsi:To point out. Let me just say about your book by the first one, it was such an honor to be asked, but then the fact that my quote is on the jacket was like crazy. It was like I had my own book release whenever I was like, look at this, but that book is so powerful, it's so easily read. I am not a reader and I think I've been told you that when you first like I don't, don't hold A lot, it's just not. You know, I mean I got that, but when I started reading it I couldn't put it down and I think I read it over a weekend, which is very bizarre for me to be able to do that.
David Brzozowsi:But it has such important lessons along the way that anybody I don't care what what stage of leadership you are in in your career it's worth reading because you might look at it and say, oh yeah, that happened to me. But then you get to say, what did I learn from it? And if I didn't learn anything, take a pause and ask yourself and I love that your book asked you to do that. So I love the book because it is a journey for anybody Brand new leaders wow, they probably could avoid some of the pitfalls that we all have gone through. So, yeah, love, love, love the book. I recommend it to everybody, all of my nephews, all my nephews.
Dr. Katie Ervin:So kind, you're so kind, it's such a. I tell people it's a love letter to leaders, because we all make mistakes and it's usually not intentional or on fault, so I appreciate it so much. Well, and so let's talk about when I bumrushed you in San Diego. We were at the Alzheimer's Association's volunteer conference. I was so full of time to be the board chair for the local Alzheimer's Association and you were doing a session which, obviously, if people don't know me at this point, they know I'm a huge emotional intelligence talent, smart nerd and we love that.
Dr. Katie Ervin:We always talk like I do TikToks. I'm like I promise I'm paid by them.
David Brzozowsi:I just think they're fantastic.
Dr. Katie Ervin:But we were type before we got on here because you were just in New Orleans with the Alzheimer's Association again. And can you talk about why? You know, guess you're employed by heart, you do get paid by them, but why is this work so important, the work you do with organizations, but also, especially, with nonprofits?
David Brzozowsi:Yeah, I will say that the corporate work was so long in learning and development I never had just one focus right Like my job was everything for the whole company. So when I joined TALISMARI, it was really that first time that I was focusing on one thing, that being emotional intelligence. I have learned over these past three and a half years that it is truly a foundation, but I like to call it the linchpin to everything else. So when somebody is saying I'm struggling with my communication skills with my team, there are elements of emotional intelligence within that discussion that you could have. So if I've gone through some emotional intelligence training whether that's through us or you've read our book or you've taken our assessment it's going to allow you to start looking at, first of all, what am I aware of my own communication styles. But also, when you talk about social awareness earlier, I get to look at my team and figure out what don't I know, so that maybe I'm not communicating effectively because there's things that I just don't understand or know about my team. So I do think that that's for me. My big a-ha has been that this is such a linchpin for any organization and I would like to see every company out there, have this as some sort of foundational piece. It's not just for leaders, it's not just for frontline people, it is for anybody who happens to be a human, because, by the way, we all have emotions, and so this allows you and I always like to clarify this emotional intelligence is simply about understanding.
David Brzozowsi:Well, sometimes those emotions make us make decisions that we might regret later on. The good and the bad, right, we're in a really great mood and we volunteer for every single thing, and then the next day you wake up and you're like, how did that happen? And you realize I just had the best day yesterday and I just said, yeah, I can do that, yeah, I can do that, but it's also I don't want to knock at myself into trouble, right, like how do I not host challenging days? Step in the way, the Alzheimer's piece. I love this group first because we got to eat.
David Brzozowsi:But the other piece is each time I find people who are doing this type of work that are out there to help people, they're taking it in in a slightly different way, because they're trying to figure out how can they still be their best selves, but holistically, and so they're taking anything about what we talk about, and last year I talked about empathy, this year I talked about compassionate accountability by using the skills of emotional intelligence, and I had people saying I will use this at work, I will use this here in the Alzheimer's organization that I volunteer for, but I'm also going to use it at home and that's the place.
David Brzozowsi:I think people forget that, like there's not a lot of other training that you're doing at your company that might transition to home, some will, but this is in your entire life. So if you coach a kid's sporting event or you're part of your church, you know a group or at sort, or you have a spouse or a partner or children, it's gonna help you in all of those relationships. So those pieces of the components are really, I think when you ask why is it so important? It is, I can't find a reason that it's not important.
Dr. Katie Ervin:Yeah, yeah, I agree. I agree. It's funny. As you're talking about it, I'm thinking about the first time I took the. Well, I read the book and then I took the assessment and for anyone who knows me, this is not gonna be a shocking statement, but I get so passionate that I don't pause to allow my brain to catch up with my tongue.
David Brzozowsi:Great, and so I can eat the beauty.
Dr. Katie Ervin:I know I'm not alone, but I can either volunteer, get myself into things that, like you said, I'm really excited about, or I can get myself in trouble, and so I use some of the techniques from the book of spelling my name backwards and forward, and I'll tell people like I use this technique because I need to allow my brain to pause and to catch up with my tongue. So I don't say or do anything to you know that I don't mean, that's not intentional, and so please know if I'm pausing, that's why, because I wanna fully hear and feel what you're saying. So I'll always do a good job and always practicing learning.
David Brzozowsi:That's why it's a journey right.
Dr. Katie Ervin:That's why it's a journey. It is, it is. But when you think about emotional intelligence, you know what is the important pieces for you, especially in the work they do.
David Brzozowsi:Yeah, you know, I think it is that. I think sometimes people think that because I'm the, I'm not a semi-expert in EQ, because I didn't go to school for it, I didn't write the research or do the research. But I think it's important that everybody's on their own journey with it. Right, and there's times whenever I'm working specifically on a skill that I'm realizing, wow, that is not working for me right now. Self-management has always been a bigger struggle for me because of just my journey in life, and that's where emotions come from. Right, it's like we have different triggers for different reasons and they sometimes are the same type of trigger, but not necessarily with the same person or the same situation. But all of a sudden, when you sit back and you analyze it, you're like, all right, so that happened 20 years ago, different person or whatever. But you're starting to realize, all right, so I still need to have that in my mind about how do I adjust, working on it. So I think for me, it's about always giving yourself a little grace that you're not gonna be perfect in all four skills, but when you start realizing that you have the opportunity in one of them, how do you take that pause? And I love that.
David Brzozowsi:You said that what you do to take your pause, right, but we all have our own way to do it. And how do I do that? And maybe I'm not fixing it. I'm fixing it's the wrong word, but I'm not working on it in the moment. But I can later on allow myself to say okay, what was that about? I might actually work on this, so the next time it's more effective For me and the other person. Potentially that was involved in that interaction too. So I do think that it's this journey. It's fluid, it continues to go. We don't just get done working on emotional intelligence so we're like, okay, well, that's done, let's do the next thing. Yeah, would that be awesome that if in life we were able to say fix that up, all done Good.
Dr. Katie Ervin:Yeah, yeah, it does take that practice and I try to tell people all the time, like, even for those of us that do this type of work all the time and talk about it all the time, it doesn't mean that we don't get in our emotions or, you know, tired or stressed or passionate or whatever. It still requires a remember and practice the things that we know and learn.
David Brzozowsi:Yeah, because we're human right and that's the thing I always like to deal with people. Humans have emotions and they don't look the same or feel the same in any of us. So give yourself 2023. My word was grace and I would always say give yourself some grace, allow yourself to know that when you figure out that, oh, that's something, step back and visit it.
Dr. Katie Ervin:Yeah, yeah, yeah, that is so fantastic. Well, and we recently talked about emotional intelligence and employee motivation. You know employee motivation, whatever topics Before I kind of ask you a question about let's talk about the really cool LinkedIn live series that you do, so can you tell? Us a little bit about that.
David Brzozowsi:Yeah, absolutely. So we're coming up on two years in May since we launched it, so it's a lot we do once a month and I bring in somebody who I know is gonna be able to talk about the topic and Somebody from internally, so kind of like the internals will, and so the and we try and touch on different topics that bring emotional intelligence in. What we're currently doing is highlighting some of the different verticals that are out there, meaning, like Last week, great conversation about we're doing in law enforcement and government. We're talking at the end of this month, on February 29th, at 1 o'clock Eastern on LinkedIn. It's a live, true live conversation for about 45 50 minutes.
David Brzozowsi:We are talking to two of my favorite women from the healthcare industry, specifically at Children's of Alabama and about. I was there a little over a year ago and I certified six people from their team because they are bringing emotional intelligence to the entire hospital system. One of the women that are going to be on is the head of nursing, so she's on the ground. The other is the most amazing woman who is in organizational development and it's about how do they bring it. So this conversation is really about people just getting to see how powerful it is in Different areas, and how you might want to say, hey, talent smart, how could we talk to you about that? Or you might just want to learn something.
David Brzozowsi:I mean, that's the beauty, and we started streaming live for the new year on both facebook and youtube as well. But, um, yeah, I hope anybody who wants to join join us there. You can link to me, you can link to the talent smart eq, count on linkedin and. And if you can't watch it live, it's always recorded as well. But it's a great conversation and you've been on twice now, haven't you?
Dr. Katie Ervin:I have, I have um, and I enjoy it so much in both times. I've been so lucky to be on with um, your boss, maggie, maggie's ass. Thank the three. Three of us can talk for Days.
David Brzozowsi:Our producer didn't cut us off. We would still be talking for a couple of hours after it.
Dr. Katie Ervin:Yeah, yeah, it's, it's fun, and I will put in the show notes, I will put out the links to everything, the connections and all of that, and this will actually be coming out, um, on february 27th. So everyone will have chase to make sure they get their RSVP and and in there and ready to go. Um, and I don't know that I've ever shied you this. Um, latanya sumpter Is a mutual friend we have. She works with my husband at smithfield foods and so she was on your linkedin live she was.
David Brzozowsi:oh, what a small world.
Dr. Katie Ervin:I know because she's in virginia.
David Brzozowsi:Yes, yes, yes, um. She came through our train, a trainer program, um, oh gosh, about a year and a half ago and I met her and I just loved her energy and really how she was seeing emotional intelligence fit Into what she does at smithfield but also in her own consulting team. And, yeah, she came on um the channel. We had a great conversation. Wow, what a small world that is, I know it is, it is.
Dr. Katie Ervin:She said oh, I saw you were doing this and and yeah, the. The beauty is, the connections are deep and and. Well, and we talked about the motivation when we last spoke. We talked about, you know, the organizations to invest intelligence, to understand I mean selfishly for me and my research and workplace satisfaction, um, but what are the benefits for to really understand and train and and to invest in in this type of work?
David Brzozowsi:Yeah, I think that's such a great question because that is usually the question that the the head of learning and development or organizational development is probably asking Our client solutions team why would we want to bring this in? So let me help you a little bit. Like, first of all, it is a foundational, because when you do understand that a lot of times the simple reason that I am not communicating more effectively is because of a lack of self-awareness or self-management or potentially, social awareness, because I'm unaware of what I should understand about my team. So, when you bring this in, we have many organizations that utilize our programming Whenever people come on board. So it's part of the onboarding strategy, which I think is so brilliant?
David Brzozowsi:Because you walk in and it's like this is how we expect us all to at least take the journey here at this company, because IQ is a journey, so you get them started and then, as you continue through whatever else, you're taking them through. Social intelligence is something you can continue to refer to when you're talking about the other skills that you're bringing to the table, because whether it's you're bringing other HR type skills or actual skills to do the job, it's important to still be able to come back to. So what are you Not, what are you?
David Brzozowsi:not aware of socially with with this particular content. Here's the other thing is a lot of times people like to coach our skills, like communication skills and leadership and all that as soft skills. We don't see emotional intelligence as a soft skill. There's nothing soft about it. We call it a power skill because when you add emotional intelligence into your curriculum, it is powerful about how it can elevate all the other skills In there.
David Brzozowsi:And you know we have a lot of different options. This is not me being a salesperson, but this is. We have options that you can do classes with us, that you can get people certified in your organization, like Latanya, or you can actually hire us to come in and teach some classes for you. But we also have online programming as well. We have assessments, so there's a lot of different options that anybody who thinks that this might be A conversation they want to have that our team and I'm not the part of the team that talks about the options, but our team can talk to say Listen, maybe start here, start there.
David Brzozowsi:Um, but I want to say that the, especially as you talk about motivation, there's such a connection between being more emotionally intelligent and being able to be a motivator but also to be motivated, and that was a great conversation that we had, because often people expect other people to motivate us right, but we have a part in that as well, yeah, and so I think that's the power of that whole piece and I love that conversation we had beginning in January. Um, you can still visit it on our, our platform on LinkedIn and see the conversation that Katie and Maggie and I had about it, because I thought it was really helpful for people to see where's this fit in there.
Dr. Katie Ervin:Yeah, yeah, and a couple. Really neat, that is, we call the skills at Catalyst. We call them career and power skills Because it is so much bigger than soft skills, and so the skills we teach are career and power skills. And then, as we were talking about motivation, in my research, emotional intelligence really is the foundation, unintentionally, of my, my catalyst workplace model, because my research showed and I won't get on a research soapbox, I promise people stay with me, it'll be quick but it's rooted in self determination theory and what I found is people are more motivated and happier at work when there are three pieces that are necessary for them. One is they feel like they truly belong at work so I can come as my true, authentic self.
Dr. Katie Ervin:And you think about the places emotional intelligence plays in that Me personally, knowing who I am and what I need, but then also the people around me knowing who I am and what I need, yeah. And then the other, what this is, do I have the skills and resources I need to do my job. So that's the training, but that's also the being able to speak up and say, hey, my computer is not working, I need a new computer, and in asking for those, just different tools and then the autonomy to do my job. Yeah, and that's important. If managers to have self awareness, if they don't understand how they're impacting their employees. I mean we could go down a love, micromanagement and lack of management and all constraints. So it's really rooted in the work that we do at Catalyst.
David Brzozowsi:Yeah, your first step that you taught about feeling once it at work and being able to be your truck and such an important piece of emotional intelligence there, because I don't. I still hear today that people's onboarding a new company sometimes is, hey, there's your desk, your laptops over there and here's the book for you to read about how we do things here. Let me know if you have any questions. First, staff meetings at noon. I mean, that's not an experience that is usually exciting. And so when you actually think about, from that social awareness piece that you mentioned, what do I, what did I need? First of all, whenever I was coming on board, what would I want to have? Let's make sure that we understand what other people need to, because people leave bosses. That's the biggest reason we know. Every Gallup survey still today says the exact same thing People are leaving because of you.
David Brzozowsi:Now, it's not every it's not 100%, but still that's a big reason. If I don't set yet for success and if I don't allow you to come and be you at work, I may find that you leave, because you're leaving a part of you elsewhere, I mean, and that's you know. That's just not a place to do so. I love your research and, by the way, you explain your research in such a way that everybody can understand that don't ever be afraid to talk about it, because I love it and so it makes so much sense, and I love that it's rooted with the EQ as kind of the foundation.
Dr. Katie Ervin:Yeah, yeah, it's funny, the aha moment. I was writing the book and then it was like, oh, all of the my path to leadership, like everything with this, like stepping stone to beautiful place. That now, where it's everything I picked up along the way, is really how we help people be strong leaders.
David Brzozowsi:Yeah, yeah.
Dr. Katie Ervin:Absolutely, yeah, yeah, well, so the final question that everybody and I love this question because what I want people to know is, path to leadership is not a straight and clean and perfect road. We all, we all, I know wouldn't it be great if it was we all have missteps and make mistakes and you know the what ifs and the and the whores. So, to the level you're comfortable sharing, what is the biggest, biggest leadership or career misstep that you feel like you've taken?
David Brzozowsi:Wow, that's a great question. I would pop into my mind is I think it is taking yourself for granted just because something worked for a little while and that you don't any longer have to work on it. And you know my specific, specific example. I won't share the exact specific, but what I learned was I was like, oh, I got that now, and then I didn't touch it again. And then all of a sudden, the next time I had to deal with it it was a self-management piece, right. I walked away saying, well, how'd that happen? I thought I thought I had that, but I think that's the reality, for as human beings and I've said that a couple of times we sometimes don't, we don't give ourselves the opportunity to say I need to still continue to learn and grow. The emotional intelligence is a perfect example, because, even though you might be working on one of the four skills to become more effective, all the other skills that are involved are completely working with them. I might think that I've gotten this better, but it's not done.
David Brzozowsi:That was probably my biggest misstep was, even though I knew better, I allowed myself to put my guard down. All I did by that is thinking that it was just going to always be how I just I'm going to call God to the place that it should be. I had to go back to the drawing board to say, okay, what was working for me before, how do I make sure that it continues to work again? It just took me to realize that I couldn't take my foot off the pedal. When you're driving. You're calling the straight and narrow doesn't mean you take your foot off the pedal because eventually you're going to stall. You have to make sure that just I did in self-management If I was self-managing really well for a while something that trigger, that thing that comes to just blindside you, sometimes steps up and makes you not self-manage as effectively as you were.
David Brzozowsi:I would say that has been my biggest and I try to just keep an eye on it because we're not perfect. I do give myself grace. I mean, listen, I've been in this career for a long time and there's sometimes when I was younger and I thought I needed to be as perfect as perfect all the time. I don't think that anymore. I just give myself the opportunity to say, okay, let's take a look at that. But that's why, for me, I really rely on my emotional intelligence and what I know about it to be able to know. If I bounce back there I can probably get back to where I was before.
Dr. Katie Ervin:Yeah, well, as you're talking, the leaders that are like hey, we need you to come in and work with our employees. I'm good, I got it, I've checked that off, I'm good, and it's like no, this is a journey. Leadership is a journey for everyone and no matter where we are in our career progression, whether it's early executives, we've got to keep working on this stuff. And if we even just put on cruise control, there's a point where you're going to hit a wall if you don't focus.
David Brzozowsi:Absolutely. You don't mind me sharing this, you just made me think about it. So I say that a lot of times, people think they grow in their career. Well, clearly, the reason that I'm at this level now is because I got this right. So I've worked with two well multiple C-suite organizations in the organizations and I worked with one group one time. I can still remember they were so not. They walked in the room and I could tell they're alive, what are you going to teach me? And they walked out of their thinking. I don't really know that I got anything out of it and their assessment results from the people around them had said to them without saying these words please pay attention, because you need some work yeah.
David Brzozowsi:But then I worked with another group of their C-suite and they walked in not necessarily that's kind of skeptical, but through it they had so many ahas and say, wow, I don't think I pay attention to that. That's a great call. I need to relook at that. And it allowed me to see how really people who want to just make sure that they are where they should be that's the mindset that anybody could have for any skill they want to build. But in emotional intelligence that's the beauty of it is you get to say to yourself what of this Do I think I need to work on?
David Brzozowsi:If you do any sort of assessments, that you get other people's feedback, you get to sometimes learn about your blind spots. You get confirmation on what you're doing really well and you might get confirmations on the things that you know that you don't do well. But it's an opportunity for you to just take that time and say how can I just be more effective? That's all that this is about. This isn't becoming perfection, this isn't about any of that, but it's being a more effective human being overall.
Dr. Katie Ervin:Yeah, yeah, that is so perfect. And I just appeal, as we are wrapping up the cool part about the TalentSpart 2.0 book and I have the new book sitting next to me Emotional Intelligence Habits. It also includes the act to the, to the, to the emotional intelligence test, so I recommend both of these books. They're such great books.
David Brzozowsi:And yours as well. Yours is a very good one too. Hey, can we do a little shout out real quick, because I know you're not going to say this yourself. I know that this is going to be out there on the 27th, but you all catalyst development just got a major call out today. You need to shout that from the rooftop, because I'm so proud of you guys.
Dr. Katie Ervin:Oh, thank you. Yes, I am. I am so blessed and fortunate that the the Kansas City community shows up for development. They are so kind to us and so we were nominated for their greater KC Chamber Small Business Superstar, which is a really cool program that we do in Kansas City that recognizes small business and then it goes into a campaign and you go in to be one of the top five businesses in small businesses in Kansas City. But just to have people anonymously go in and do the work to nominate you is it's humbling and kind, but it's also really affirming that we're doing important work that we're just really lucky to do. So thank you for that.
David Brzozowsi:Thank you for that, absolutely Congratulations.
Dr. Katie Ervin:Thank you, thank you. Well, and I have to say, like I say this all the time and they always push back, but I would not be where I was without Emma and John, my team, like when I said, you know, hey, hear me out on a, you know, reliable jobs and venture out on a journey, they're like, all right, where we had it. And yeah, I mean I tell people I've never been in my life but I've never slept better in my life, which is really a gift.
David Brzozowsi:Yeah, there's emotional intelligence for you too.
Dr. Katie Ervin:Yeah, yeah. Well, thank you so much. Thank you for not straining order on me when I rushed the stage. Thank you for everything. I just learned so much from you. But, more importantly, I just enjoy our connection and appreciate you always showing up for me and for Catalyst.
David Brzozowsi:Oh, likewise too. This is great, and anytime that you need anything, I am here for you. I know you were offered here for me, but keep doing what you guys are doing, because I'll tell you what it really makes a difference when people have a place to turn to say we need to make our people better.
Dr. Katie Ervin:Oh, I love it. I love it. Well, everyone, I am going to put all the information in the show notes. If you are not connected with TalentSmart, what are you doing? Get in there, get connected, be ready for the LinkedIn Live on the 29th and we will see you next time on the Path to Leadership. Thanks, everyone.
