The Path To Leadership

Embracing Your Voice: The Power of Speaking Up with Authenticity

January 22, 2024 Catalyst Development Season 1 Episode 19
Embracing Your Voice: The Power of Speaking Up with Authenticity
The Path To Leadership
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The Path To Leadership
Embracing Your Voice: The Power of Speaking Up with Authenticity
Jan 22, 2024 Season 1 Episode 19
Catalyst Development

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Have you ever found yourself in a room full of people, palms sweating, heart racing, as you're about to speak? You're not alone. On Speak Up and Succeed Day (https://nationaltoday.com/speak-up-and-succeed-day/)  , we invite you to join our celebration of the spoken word and personal expression.   Alongside me, Jenna, our resident extrovert, shares her ease with crowds, while Emma, an introverted performer, reveals her unique challenges with public speaking.

In our latest episode, we extend a supportive hand to our quieter companions, stressing the importance of every voice in a discussion, especially in spaces where extroverts usually shine. Our conversation provides practical advice for creating an inclusive environment, from written feedback to setting the psychological stage for open dialogue. We share anecdotes like the Coffee with Champions event, showcasing real-life examples of successful, inclusive communication. It's all about recognizing that each of us has something valuable to contribute, regardless of where we fall on the introvert-extrovert spectrum.

Authenticity is the linchpin of genuine connection and the theme of our closing discussion. Embracing who we are, stuttering and all, can be the key to unlocking our communicative potential. I open up about my journey of finding a balance between honesty and empathy in my speech, while the act of using a friend's music as a walk-up song becomes a touchstone for confidence and identity. The episode wraps with a powerful reminder: speaking up can lead to unexpected and transformative outcomes. We challenge you to find your voice and let it ring out, as Emma did, leading her music to grace our podcast—and your ears.

We discussed the book How To Be An Introvert In An Extrovert World by Michele Connolly.

Follow Catalyst Development on LinkedIn @catalystdevelopment, @drkatieervin, @jennascott, @emmablankenship

www.cdleaders.com

Theme music by Emma Jo https://emmajo.rocks/

Show Notes Transcript Chapter Markers

Send us a Text Message.

Have you ever found yourself in a room full of people, palms sweating, heart racing, as you're about to speak? You're not alone. On Speak Up and Succeed Day (https://nationaltoday.com/speak-up-and-succeed-day/)  , we invite you to join our celebration of the spoken word and personal expression.   Alongside me, Jenna, our resident extrovert, shares her ease with crowds, while Emma, an introverted performer, reveals her unique challenges with public speaking.

In our latest episode, we extend a supportive hand to our quieter companions, stressing the importance of every voice in a discussion, especially in spaces where extroverts usually shine. Our conversation provides practical advice for creating an inclusive environment, from written feedback to setting the psychological stage for open dialogue. We share anecdotes like the Coffee with Champions event, showcasing real-life examples of successful, inclusive communication. It's all about recognizing that each of us has something valuable to contribute, regardless of where we fall on the introvert-extrovert spectrum.

Authenticity is the linchpin of genuine connection and the theme of our closing discussion. Embracing who we are, stuttering and all, can be the key to unlocking our communicative potential. I open up about my journey of finding a balance between honesty and empathy in my speech, while the act of using a friend's music as a walk-up song becomes a touchstone for confidence and identity. The episode wraps with a powerful reminder: speaking up can lead to unexpected and transformative outcomes. We challenge you to find your voice and let it ring out, as Emma did, leading her music to grace our podcast—and your ears.

We discussed the book How To Be An Introvert In An Extrovert World by Michele Connolly.

Follow Catalyst Development on LinkedIn @catalystdevelopment, @drkatieervin, @jennascott, @emmablankenship

www.cdleaders.com

Theme music by Emma Jo https://emmajo.rocks/

Katie Ervin:

Hi everyone, welcome back to the path to leadership. I have the ladies with me. Hey, jenna, how are you? I'm doing wonderful. How are you today? I am good, good, good, a little tired. Been doing a whole lot of nasty work Ready to be done with that, but good. Hey, emma, how are you?

Jenna Scott:

I'm good Katie.

Katie Ervin:

Yeah, we are ramping up. By the time everyone hears this, our leaders Institute will have kicked off for 2024. And so it's amazing, but a lot of prep work going into it and getting ready for them, for the new class to start. I'm excited.

Emma Blankenship:

Anytime you plan a big event with that many people involved, it's like there's a lot of details, and that's why we love having Emma.

Katie Ervin:

Exactly, exactly. So well, and I wanted to the topic. I'm excited for this topic today, especially with the three of us, because Tuesday, the day this comes out, is Speak Up and Succeed Day, and I love like the random holidays and the random like recognition days that you know, like taco day and milkshake milkshake day and all of that randomness, and so when I was thinking about a topic for today, I went into, you know, the World Holiday website and it was Speak Up and Succeed Day and I thought what a perfect topic for us to talk about.

Emma Blankenship:

Yeah. I like it a lot.

Katie Ervin:

And I think the reason why it's so good is Jenna you were self-proclaimed extroverts.

Emma Blankenship:

Yeah, more than self-proclaimed, I think everybody and their brother has proclaimed me an extrovert.

Katie Ervin:

Right, I thought I was an extrovert, and then I met you, and then I realized extroverted. However, there's times where not as much. And then, Emma, you are our resident introvert.

Jenna Scott:

Yeah, I'm the only one of the bunch.

Katie Ervin:

And how you jump up on a stage and sing and then my husband's like what? She's an introvert? And I'm like, yes, she is, I promise.

Jenna Scott:

Introverted performers were a weird bunch.

Katie Ervin:

Well, I was looking at and I'm going to put this website in the show description because I just think it's fascinating, because it talks about the history of public speaking, and it started in 400 BC, with the Greek citizens learning how to public speak. And when I think about public speaking, it's not just like getting on stage and speaking or performing, but it's talking in public, it's engaging, it's having conversations. And so, emma, we'll start with you. When you think about public speaking, what do you think about?

Jenna Scott:

I think about when I was in my freshman year of college and I had to take my first public speaking class, and that was when I first realized that I in fact am not an extrovert.

Jenna Scott:

I kind of thought I was all through my teenage years because none of my friends got up on stages and sang songs or talked, and so I thought that meant that I was an extrovert. And then, when it came to actually learning about rhetoric and public speaking, I was terrified, terrified to talk in front of people or even talk in small groups, and so that was kind of a weird thing for me, having to figure out well, why is it that I can do one thing and not the other? But I think public speaking is just different. It's probably the most, I think still it's the number one fear of I don't know, I think people worldwide, not just Americans, but it's a very common fear, and it's not just public speaking, but being able to speak up amongst other people, like in the workplace. Being able to speak up and say your piece is it can be a very intimidating thing for a lot of people. So I think it's a good thing to talk about.

Katie Ervin:

Yeah, yeah, I agree, Jenna. What are your thoughts on speaking up and public speaking? So?

Emma Blankenship:

here's how I knew I was an extrovert. I go back to college too, because I think that's where really everybody's kind of first introduced to public speaking. You get some of it in high school, but really college where they're like hey, you have to take this public speaking class and kind of force everybody into it. But I was in a business fraternity in college, shout out to my DSP brothers. But we had to go out and do recruitment right, and so one of the things was go talk to the 500 person accounting class. That's just like a lecture hall and everybody was like who wants to go do that? And I was like I'll do it whatever. And they're like it doesn't make you nervous. So I was like no, they're people.

Katie Ervin:

What do you mean?

Emma Blankenship:

Like, yeah, there's 500 people in there, but I don't care. They were like, okay, yeah, please. And then, literally every year after that, they were like Jenna, you want to go do that? Again I was like, yeah, sign me up, I'll go do it, no problem. So just knowing that, I was like, oh, this is a thing that people don't like to do, that somehow or another just comes very naturally to me. But again, like I was saying that, that ability to just speak up in front of people and voice your opinion or add to a conversation you know, there's so many times that we're in trainings or settings with company where I can see people's brains and I know they're not speaking up because they're either Intimidated or don't have the confidence or have never been given the space to feel like they can add. So I think of public speaking in both those ways.

Katie Ervin:

Yeah, yeah, and it's interesting when you talk about you know confidence, because that's a big part of you know public speaking skills. And it's funny because I didn't think about it until you ladies were talking like the first time I really really had to address and stand up on stage with a script and a microphone was in college as well, and it was. I was on student government and I was a faculty liaison for the student government. So during our I think I've talked about this on our earlier podcast Apple Day is Pittsburgh State's big celebration and so we celebrate faculty and their connections and all kinds of stuff, and so I was actually giving an award, so I was hosting it, and then I was giving an award to my faculty advisor who had passed away, and I was giving it to his wife and she had just passed her.

Katie Ervin:

He had just passed away, and so it was fine reading the script and I was fine going through everything. And then when I started talking about Dr Fryhard, like I, just the emotions came over me and I just got really nervous and and I walked off stage and I was pretty pleased with myself that I had made it through I'm a crier like I didn't break down in my mentor Like the first thing he did was he looked me in the eye and he was like we need to work on your public speaking skills.

Katie Ervin:

Thanks, and so now it's funny because I love public speaking, I love getting up on stage, but that's because I speak from my heart and not from a script. But I still can hear his voice in my head and I have to like silence that voice because that confidence will kind of creep in of should you be doing this or shouldn't you be doing this?

Emma Blankenship:

Yeah, it all plays into it, you know, and then you're going to talk about like imposter syndrome that drives back to confidence and what was your real like first experience of public speaking probably sets the tone for how you feel about public speaking.

Jenna Scott:

Yeah, yeah, I think a lot of introverts who are listening right now can relate to this Part of. I think my hesitation in speaking up, even in small groups, is that you know, I'm a writer and I'm a trained historian and a lot of that is thinking really hard and doing a lot of research and then writing it all out and figuring out the best way to say it and kind of working through that on a slower pace and conversations move quickly, and so if you are more of a more of an internal kind of thinker or someone who prefers writing to speaking, just in general, even if you have, even if you're the kind of person that has a lot of self confidence, it doesn't really matter because you are hesitant to speak, you're like slow to actually speak, and that has been my challenge in my whole work life of like. By the time I feel like I'm ready and I have thought out what I'm going to say well, enough to speak. The conversation has moved on.

Katie Ervin:

Yeah, yeah, and that's so interesting. We were kind of talking about this when we were talking about doing the podcast, because Jenna's like do you really need my extroverted opinion into this conversation? But I think it's really important because, as extroverts, we talk and process and keep going, and we will, we will walk through and talk through and go through a whole process and just keep talking, talking, talking, talking, talking, talking until we get to a point and then sometimes we just blow past the point and just keep on going. So, jenna, how do you, knowing that and you're really good at this like how do you make space for everybody else?

Emma Blankenship:

I think the thing that I've had to really make myself aware of is that I am an extrovert right, and typically what happens is I get around other extroverts and I can tell when something's going round and round.

Emma Blankenship:

But it's that the situational awareness that has become really important for me is that being able to look around the room and see who isn't speaking, even when I'm engaged in a conversation with somebody across from me or around me, being able to look over and be like I see Emma's brain, I see what's happening, I see that she's going to have something to add here, and then I will literally stop and be like hey, emma, you haven't said anything in a while. Is there something you think is important here that you want to add? And sometimes she's like no, everybody already said everything, and other times she'll be like actually yes. So that's really been like my thing is slowing down enough to pause the conversation, because I know I'm an external processor, because I know that other people are not. So making myself situationally aware and it takes practice I mean, it's not something that I've always been super good at, but practicing that look around the room to then be able to pause the conversation and invite other people in.

Katie Ervin:

Yeah, yeah, and I think that pulls in emotional intelligence piece as well.

Jenna Scott:

True, and I just wanted to say that for the extroverts, listening that is really appreciated, and Jenna's very good at that. You know, katie, you're good at that If you're listening and you're the kind of person who you're like. Oh, I'm a great conversationalist. I'm great at keeping the conversation going. Do that, start practicing looking around the room and seeing if there was anyone who never said anything. Or, you know, if you, or if you're halfway through the meeting and there's someone who hasn't spoken yet, you may want to slow down, give a pause and offer that person a chance to chime in, because they've just may be afraid of interrupting. They don't want to be rude, they don't know if what they have to say is valuable enough to share, but to give them the opportunity to do that oftentimes you'll be pleasantly surprised, because they have something very, you know, important to share. They just don't really put a lot of stock in that, so you have to give them that opportunity oftentimes.

Katie Ervin:

Yeah, and we have to be really careful because in our development programs that we do, it's so much about engagement and self awareness and so we will even ask like who's our extroverts in the room? And, like you know, their hands shoot up like both hands, like here I am, here I am, and it's like who's the introverts in the room? And you can slowly see that, yeah, and it's kind of like we ask that question because one we want to make sure that we're giving everyone voice and comfort and, you know, acknowledgement that we love the introverts in the room. But also we just finished one of our six month programs and I mean that room was wildly extroverted and so what we did was we would start them in small groups, so we would throw out a discussion question and then put them in groups of two or three where they're comfortable and they're going, going, going, and then we could never pull them back because they were like deep into conversation and then they would share, but it allowed them to really process in comfort.

Emma Blankenship:

Yeah, the other thing I think we found with the introverted groups is giving them the same people over and over again. Because of a lot of our training and development. We want people to meet new people.

Emma Blankenship:

We want them to go and sit with people that they don't know, but with introverts there is a level of comfort and there's a level of I know this person already and I don't have to do the pleasantries part of it that if you match them with the same person over at least a couple classes, then they get some familiarity and there's not as much like where do I start that kind of a thing?

Jenna Scott:

Yeah, yeah, one thing that we talk about in our introvert trainings is, you know, the suggestion of offering an opportunity for written feedback or for having at least a few questions or topics that are going to be addressed in the upcoming meeting put into an agenda beforehand so that the introverts have a chance to kind of think about what they, you know, want to say about that topic, so that they can jot down a few notes or even, you know, provide some written feedback to submit to the person organizing the meeting. So just something to think about for the extroverts. If you happen to know that you've got some people who are supposed to be in that room, you want to know what they have to say, but you know that they may not interject themselves. That's a good way and maybe something we might incorporate into some of our trainings as well. Yeah, just giving that opportunity to have that thing written down so that they're not so intimidated. They're like oh yeah, I have my notes here.

Katie Ervin:

Yeah, yeah. And I always recommend to my extroverted friends the book how to Be an Introvert in an Extroverted World by Michelle Conley. It's such a good book and it just really helps. She's an introvert and so it really helps those of us that are extroverts just kind of see that. You know, for extroverts sometimes it's like, well, just speak up, like just say something, like just jump in, that's our comfort, that's where we come from and we can't, even if someone else is extroverted, like if they're not comfortable in the room, if they don't have the confidence, if there's imposter syndrome going on, if they're not well versed on the topic or their subject like to just assume that everybody's comfortable speaking up. That's a crazy thought to think, but we live in our little bubble sometimes and that self-awareness doesn't kick in.

Emma Blankenship:

Yeah, and I think the thing that we kind of have to talk about here, if we're going to talk about the ability to speak up, is if your company is having trouble getting people to speak up, you might want to look and see how psychological safety is doing right. Because if you don't have psychological safety in your organization, even if somebody is an introvert or isn't aware of the subject, like Katie and Emma, can toss me into a meeting and be like hey, you have no idea what's going on, but come join us and I will speak up, because I know they won't look at me and be like what did she just say? That was dumb. They know, like they're never going to speak that about me because they know me well enough and because we have psychological safety and all the things that go there. But if your company doesn't have that, people may not feel safe to speak up, and that's really the first step to inviting people to speak up.

Katie Ervin:

Yeah, yeah. I think that's such a good point and whether it's in company or in groups, I mean there's so many networking groups out there and when I look at some of the networking groups, we were just. This isn't a networking group, but it's an event that the Negro League Baseball Museum puts on, which is Coffee with Champions. And I was telling our friend, keana Sinks, that room is so phenomenal like diverse and of all, like everything race, gender, ages, backgrounds, like I mean you want to talk about, but the comfort in that room you can I mean you can almost like you're, almost like you don't have to go home, but you can't stay here Like the environment of comfort that they create in that space is such a gift and we're planning events when we're, when we're planning networking or whatever.

Katie Ervin:

Is it safe, is it inclusive? Can people walk in and feel like they belong? I'm very open that I gave myself the biggest gift in the world of hearing aids about six months ago. But I mean, even if a room is too loud, it is so disheartening or disruptive for me that I have to remove myself from the room if it's too loud or if there's too much going on, because it hurts me so bad, and I think that's something that we don't often think about when we're planning events or wanting people to speak, or something on those lines.

Emma Blankenship:

Yeah, it's a lot of thinking about other people. It kind of goes back to almost like marketing, where I try to think of family feud style, thinking in my head not what I need, but what everybody else in the room might need or say right, it's not about what makes me comfortable, who could be here that may need to have a projector? If there's going to be a group that's farther away that maybe you can't see very well from the back? Is there somebody who might have hearing aids? Is there somebody who may need ASL? Is there somebody who may need translation of some sort? There's so many different areas to think about. When you think of creating psychological safety, especially for events, it can be a lot, but it can also be very inviting. Even the attempt to try can help foster some of that psychological safety for people.

Katie Ervin:

Yeah, I agree. I agree, and it's hard too if you're a speaker up on stage. If people in the back can't hear you, they're going to get distracted, they're going to start having side conversations, they're going to start doing other things or they might, frankly, just leave. That doesn't help in the whole gaining your confidence and trying to speak either. I love it and not to fully take steal your thunder, Emma, but the website does have some homework that I would like to assign people and then put your guys' thoughts. So it says. In order to celebrate speak up and succeed, day number one is raise your voice. Challenge yourself to speak up today. Spread awareness. Use this day to spread awareness of how essential it is to be a good speaker. Get on your social media platforms that share the message and then motivate others who might need an extra push or support to really encourage them to speak up. I thought those were some cool tips.

Jenna Scott:

Yeah, can I add to that? Yeah, do it. I know you have some, because I love giving homework. I think I would, if you're an extrovert especially, instead of challenge yourself to speak up today, because you probably already are going to do that, I would say challenge yourself to speak up for someone else today. So if you are at an event and you can see someone who's struggling with something or they can't hear or whatever, or to use an example that's pertinent to me, like if I go into an event and I realize, oh, there's nothing for me to eat here, because I eat plant-based A lot of times, I'm not going to say something to anyone, but Jenna sometimes wills.

Emma Blankenship:

No, holding back. I'll be like, excuse me, hello.

Jenna Scott:

Or Katie wills. She's been known to go up to an event organizer and say, hey, do you have a vegetarian meal?

Katie Ervin:

Or the chef.

Jenna Scott:

Yeah, exactly, and I don't often do that. So I think that's a very kind thing that both of you do, and because you know I'm not going to do it. And so, if you are an extrovert, practice today speaking up for someone else. If you're an introvert or someone who just generally don't speak up, then, yes, the advice or the homework is to speak up for yourself in some fashion.

Jenna Scott:

The other thing I wanted to talk about though real quick and whatever you guys think, I'd like to hear your thoughts too but is about authenticity when you speak up or when you're sort of talking with other people, showing up with your whole self. That is something that I've really had to learn and it's given me a little bit more confidence. When I do have to talk or show up somewhere where I know I'm going to have to be talking is being able to show up as your whole self. So if I don't have to hide the fact that, oh yeah, I'm a multi-passionate person, a lot of people in Kansas City will recognize me as a singer and they'll say, oh, I remember seeing you at this or that event and I'm like, oh yeah, I do this, I do that, and so I'm able to show up as my whole self, which gives me a little bit more self confidence that I can actually just be my authentic self. So do either of you have thoughts on authenticity and its place in this topic?

Emma Blankenship:

I think that's one place that I like don't even have to think about, but I think makes a really big impact. I think my parents, a long time ago, basically just said show up, how you're gonna show up and be you, and everybody will Love you, even though they're crazy for that. But I I think if you don't show up authentically, there's more nervousness that comes with it, because you're trying to project something you aren't. You're gonna have a much harder time saying the things that you need to say in a heartfelt, conducive make like it. It comes out more jumbled if you don't actually feel like you're saying it from who you are. So for me, that's something that's always come very natural. I am me, I say the things. I may stumble over my words here and there, but I'll just roll with it. I'll make you laugh at myself if I do mess it up, and then we'll just keep going, and so I think authenticity is a really large part of being able to speak up.

Katie Ervin:

Yeah, yeah, I do too, and it's interesting Because and it's funny actually, am I? You're welcome. I made my TikTok today and you know about this topic because you know early in my career who I thought I was Was this like I'm just gonna be brutally honest and I'm gonna tell people how it is and I'm gonna just say it and and feeding um how you feel about it, and it's like, well, you can be honest without being brutal. And you know, I Didn't grow up with parents that were like we won't go down the road. I didn't grow up with the same thing, jenna, and so in our house, you were always in competition with each other, whether you wanted to be or not, and so you're always fighting for voice. You were always fighting for opportunity, we're fighting for space, and and we didn't talk very nice to each other, and so I had to learn throughout my career that I could still be honest and Kind without being brutal and without taking people out of the knees. But that's what I knew. And then I went into.

Katie Ervin:

When I started it was really male dominated, and so then that was also really kind of throat, and so it was really you. You spoke up and you put people in their place and you, you know, shut them down, and so it's a while to realize it. That's going to one damaged relationships but, more importantly, that's gonna slow my progression in life. So you can be authentic, you can be honest and you can be kind, but you don't have to Do it in a mean and hateful way. But you know, I say all the time, common sense isn't common unless we talk about it.

Katie Ervin:

And in my house, like I said, some and sense was, you took people out of the knees and it's. It's shocking when you realize that other people don't do that. And so we, we have to give each other grace as well, like when people don't show up the way we want them to doesn't mean that they're not a good person, they just, you know, I'm in senses and common, so I'm Windy left path that I will get, you know, get us off of. But think about too, like I, when I See people speak in public and I hear them sometimes, I hear their tone, or I hear their passion or I hear something, sometimes I have to remind myself, like, give them grace. We don't know their backstories, we don't know, you know their mornings, where they came from, what's going on and so making space for everybody to be heard and seen.

Jenna Scott:

That's such a good point making space for other people but also, as you said, kind of understanding our own backgrounds, both family and also, I don't know, industry, or the way you were trained in school.

Jenna Scott:

You know, I remember when I first started my career, you know, having come from a history background where everyone I felt was very serious, and I sort of hid my full self from my colleagues because I was like, oh, I'm going to be seen as not very serious or I won't be taken seriously if I show up as my full self, I've really really learned how to speak up as my true self. Because you know, as you know, katie, if I wasn't able to do that, then what would it be like? You say you're going to start a podcast for Catalyst and I don't speak up about like, hey, do you want to use? You know I have music that you can use as the intro. If you didn't, if I didn't feel like I could speak up to you about who I am in my full life, then we wouldn't have that and we just wouldn't have that part of our. You wouldn't know me really.

Katie Ervin:

Yeah Well, and when I walk on stage I wouldn't have that extra confidence of having your song as my walk up music, where I feel like let's just all sit here for three minutes and just listen to the song and dance a little bit.

Jenna Scott:

Dance party.

Emma Blankenship:

Right. That's a big part of this too, though. When you, when you have that extra pep in your step, when you get to show up as your full self, you also get to put yourself on a path right. Like the fact that Emma has music that gets to be on our podcast, what if that leads to her doing podcast music for other people? But, like, if you can't speak up for yourself and you don't, you know, put yourself out there in the authentic way that you want to be, you're either going to be put on a path that you don't want to be on because somebody else decides it, or you're going to end up not on a path at all because you're not willing to say, hey, I want that role. Or hey, don't treat me like that. Or hey, I want to do this, this and this, Like that's.

Emma Blankenship:

I think what the purpose of this whole day is is if you want to speak up or if you want to succeed. Speak up, and that sometimes is difficult. You know, I've been in plenty of situations where I had to remind somebody that I will not stand for being spoke to like that, and that's not an easy conversation. It's also not an easy conversation to, you know, sign up for something that you're kind of nervous about, so that speaking up can can really change your trajectory of your job, can change a trajectory of your life. You know, I mean, if you don't speak up, you might not find that person either. There's a lot of places that your voice is important.

Katie Ervin:

Yeah, and you know it's interesting you talking about that. I was thinking of, you know, some of the coaching clients that we have and you know, or or even friends that are in industry that are like why does everyone always ask me to do this? I don't want to do this? And it's like well, what do you speak about? That's all over your social media, like this is how you. So if that's inauthentic, if that's not who you are, you know you're not who you want to be. If that's not the story you want to tell, stop telling that story. Yeah, absolutely Perfect. Well, as we wrap up so they have their homework, we're going to put the book in the show notes. Also in the show notes on every show is Emma's website so you can check out her music. So if you don't have your own seam song, walk-up song, like burst into a room song what are you even doing? Download Emma's music.

Emma Blankenship:

I do want to add one piece of homework from me for this extrovert. I know we talked a little bit about being able to look around the room, and I think that's a big part of it, but if you're really not sure what that looks like, my tip for you is to look for somebody who's maybe uncomfortable, and it's not even about having them to speak up. I have invited people to my table who have been wallflowers, who have said no words until they went to leave and then said thank you. But they were standing on the wall and didn't know where they were, and so I invited them in. And so just extroverts, keep that in mind. It doesn't always have to be calling on somebody. It can be having a sidebar conference with somebody and saying how are you feeling about this? It can be a text message, it can be. It's so much more simple than calling somebody out. So I'm going to assign my extroverts be a little more attentive to the quiet ones in your life.

Katie Ervin:

Yeah, I love that. All right, well, as we are wrapping up, thank you, ladies, so much. Hopefully you all got something out of this. Please share the podcast and get the word out there. If you have topics and things that you want to hear, we would love to hear that as well. And the other thing, too, is feel free to leave a review. Five stars favorite number, but leave a review for us. That really helps the podcast get out there so other people can experience and learn from us. So, thank you, ladies, so much. I appreciate it. Bye everyone, bye, bye.

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